Re: Bonsai Soil Sieves

my nellie Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:03 pm

M. Frary wrote: But Vance.
How can places Bonsai Mirai ever hope to sell expensive sieving screens at exorbitant prices if you go and let this information out?

Or those fancy shiny aluminum rotating bases?

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:59 pm

alexandra - bovine = cow (or in Vance's case, i believe he meant bull) and scat = poop

so bovine scatology = BULL SH1T Razz

and vances advice is good ONLY if you are starting out with material of a relatively uniform size (without splitting hairs)

but 1/2" + particles should most definitely be separated from 1/8" ones - solid science behind that...

and maybe you were being sarcastic but i dont think anyone here is talking about sifting dirt out of the ground Wink

Vance Wood Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:16 am

M. Frary wrote:
Vance Wood wrote:My opinion and you can take it anyway you like. Most sieve systems are better at producing sales to beginner and early level growers that want to do anything and everything "bonsai" they become aware of than actually producing recognizable results. Sifting soil is better than using it right out of the ground but there really is no necessity to obsess over strata and levels in a pot of particles of this size and that size. Sifting a soil mix should only be done to remove the dust from a soil mix. You can do all the fancy stuff you wish but after fifty some odd years of growing bonsai I have found that much of what we are taught and sold as gospel is bovine scatology. Most of the time a fine window type screen will do the job quite nicely and will cost you very little. At a time when you should be encouraged to provide the basics for your trees and lean how to style and wire and prune, many of you are making a big deal out of the dirt wars.

But Vance.
How can places Bonsai Mirai ever hope to sell expensive sieving screens at exorbitant prices if you go and let this information out?

Why do you think that many of the greatest minds, so called, in bonsai look upon me like a dirty diaper?

Vance Wood Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:26 am

kevin stoeveken wrote:alexandra - bovine = cow (or in Vance's case, i believe he meant bull) and scat = poop

so bovine scatology = BULL SH1T

and vances advice is good ONLY if you are starting out with material of a relatively uniform size (without splitting hairs)

but 1/2" + particles should most definitely be separated from 1/8" ones - solid science behind that...

and maybe you were being sarcastic but i dont think anyone here is talking about sifting dirt out of the ground

You forget my friend I have been around so long that I used to do that. I usded to collect the elements of bonsai soil right out of the ground with the exception of humus. Then came calcined clay, measured sands for swiming pools and sand blasting, and volcanic elements like Pumice and red lava. Not desiring to start another dirt war but when is the last time you saw a tree in nature in a patch of ground that looks like a bonsai mix----when was the first time. Never the less; trees do just fine in the lousy crap nature provides its own.

Khaimraj Seepersad Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:49 pm

Vance,

my sieves are home made or just something I got at an Indian store.

I am lucky my supply of 5 mm gravel comes in 50 lb bags from a place that does sand blasting.
Also lucky in the land I recently [ as a group ] acquired, has a deposit of gravel and just a
simple sifter does the work taking out fines. Though I do use some 3 mm as well.

I have never layered in a pot, as I was never sure if in 6 inches [ 15 cm ] that would really make
any kind of a difference ?

The guys [ Nic / Anthony ] just sifted 10 large dog food sized bags of compost to age. The pit at
Mayaro is doing well, and this stuff is a similar grade to Rabbit manure. Now to just moisten and
age to kill the weeds. Into the 55 US black barrel it all goes.

So many things can be had very cheaply /sensibly and they work.
No need to Bonsai yourself to death.
Laters.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:00 pm

Ground works because water seeps away.
Pot no allow seepage, unless earthenware and can be earthenware glazed on sides but no underneath.

Which maybe why the loam mixes work well in porous earthenware pots of the past.

What Bonsai soil is large sized [ 5 to 8 mm ] mixes of simple loam ------ sand, clay and organic.

The larger size allows fast drainage and fresh 02 [ like you guys needed me to say it Laughing

]

Check the most popular mix ------ akadama [ decays to clay ], some sort of other inorganic/s and then feed with organic
oil seed meal cakes.
Idea based on Farming technique.

I won't use anything that crumbles.
Compost goes to humus, which becomes more or less the size of the inorganic [ my case 5 mm ] natural glues in
compost. Humus is more or less inorganic and decays to metal oxides etc.

As it dissolves, the new compost / roots take it's place and the cycle continues.
Until
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:04 pm

Scat is crap / feces / human refuse in the on-line Urban Dictionary

Scat also means shoo/go away as in shoo dog, git away.

What has Vance been doing ? Laughing

Laters tutti
Khaimraj

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:43 pm

scat is also a form of jazz vocalizations !!!
or shite talk !

vance, you dirty old diaper you !!! i love your no-nonsense way...
(thats why we asked you into the AAC)

but, needless to say, we are not growing trees in the ground
and if you tell me that you are growing your trees in regular yard dirt, i will be more than surprised affraid

but based on how your trees look, i gotta feeling that aint the case Wink

Vance Wood Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:54 pm

kevin stoeveken wrote:scat is also a form of jazz vocalizations !!!
or shite talk !

vance, you dirty old diaper you !!! i love your no-nonsense way...
(thats why we asked you into the AAC)

but, needless to say, we are not growing trees in the ground
and if you tell me that you are growing your trees in regular yard dirt, i will be more than surprised

but based on how your trees look, i gotta feeling that aint the case

One of the members of our club used to do that, we called him "Dirt Farmer ****" he had good results to a point.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:34 pm

Was his first name Richard by chance ?
The diminutive form of which would go nicely with the moniker Wink

are we digressing ? Razz

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