Chinese Elm- First repotting
+10
DougB
Rui Marques
M. Frary
denzel62
augustine
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai
JimLewis
BobbyLane
Marty Weiser
kenikol
14 posters
Page 1 of 2
Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
Chinese Elm- First repotting
Hello,
I have the mentioned bonsai about 2 years ago. When I bought it i just want to be sure the bonsai survive my first steps as an amateur gardener in the world of bonsai.
The first year was finished with good results so I decided in this spring I re-potting my tree.
Find attached some photos about the results:
Now i waiting for the results and to see which branch are alive and which is not after the winter. When I can figure it out i start to wiring to Hokidachi style.
If do you have any remark, proposal, criticism I gladly welcome them.
P.S.: Sorry for the easy english. I write from Hungary.
Thank you.
I have the mentioned bonsai about 2 years ago. When I bought it i just want to be sure the bonsai survive my first steps as an amateur gardener in the world of bonsai.
The first year was finished with good results so I decided in this spring I re-potting my tree.
Find attached some photos about the results:
Now i waiting for the results and to see which branch are alive and which is not after the winter. When I can figure it out i start to wiring to Hokidachi style.
If do you have any remark, proposal, criticism I gladly welcome them.
P.S.: Sorry for the easy english. I write from Hungary.
Thank you.
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Looks good. I also like to get them repotted and find out what is really alive and well before doing much styling. It looks like there may be too many branches starting from the trunk in my view - it is bushy. However, that is a good problem to have - it is easy to cut off the ones you don't want. The English is fine - a million times better than my Hungarian.
Marty Weiser- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvNo-igPgO0
Start from the inside out and remove dead branches, crossing branches, branches that snake back, leggy weak branches with long internodes. Keep all the strong growth and try to maintain the broom image. take your time, the vid will help.
Start from the inside out and remove dead branches, crossing branches, branches that snake back, leggy weak branches with long internodes. Keep all the strong growth and try to maintain the broom image. take your time, the vid will help.
BobbyLane- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Thank you guys the support.
I just have thinking two other question:
1)
Should I be better stance (in one or two years later) if I cut back the branches into the trunk and let grown a whole new branches as long as I want, or I should get better results with the current branches and the wiring them?
2)
Could you guess how many years old this little fellow? I bought it 2 and half year ago but the size of the trunk not change too much.
I just have thinking two other question:
1)
Should I be better stance (in one or two years later) if I cut back the branches into the trunk and let grown a whole new branches as long as I want, or I should get better results with the current branches and the wiring them?
2)
Could you guess how many years old this little fellow? I bought it 2 and half year ago but the size of the trunk not change too much.
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
If the branches after you remove the parts as BobbyLen suggests are reasonably well placed with good thickness for the style them keep them. The major reasons to cut back to the trunk and regrow the branches are that they are too thick or are badly placed.
Without a more detailed look, a good guess is that the tree was 4 - 6 years old when you got it - grown fairly quickly and then cut back hard.
Without a more detailed look, a good guess is that the tree was 4 - 6 years old when you got it - grown fairly quickly and then cut back hard.
Marty Weiser- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Hello,
I'm back, as i promised.
Now i had figured it out which branches are alive and I'm done with the wiring. I spent more than 2 hour to wire and cut out the small branches.
I used 2 type of wire 0.6 mm and 1 mm for the bigger guys. Both of them made from copper. I know it is not the best for deciduous trees but this was cheep in the hobby store. The color of the wires is.... uhh... so yeah... I know not the best for the bonsai, not so natural color but this is my first wiring so I'm happy with it.
So some picture before-after:
The tools for the wiring, nothing special but it was useful
If do you have any remark, proposal, criticism I gladly welcome them.
Kenikol
I'm back, as i promised.
Now i had figured it out which branches are alive and I'm done with the wiring. I spent more than 2 hour to wire and cut out the small branches.
I used 2 type of wire 0.6 mm and 1 mm for the bigger guys. Both of them made from copper. I know it is not the best for deciduous trees but this was cheep in the hobby store. The color of the wires is.... uhh... so yeah... I know not the best for the bonsai, not so natural color but this is my first wiring so I'm happy with it.
So some picture before-after:
The tools for the wiring, nothing special but it was useful
If do you have any remark, proposal, criticism I gladly welcome them.
Kenikol
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
the copper wire does not look like it was annealed...
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2439-annealing-copper-wire
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2439-annealing-copper-wire
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Thanks for the noticing. I truly consider to cut out that dead branch. However all of my tools is listed on the picture below for this operations. I will ask someone to lend me a nice pinchers for this one cut.
About the wire:
It is not just copper wire, the packaging said one is "Brass wire", the other one is "Copper wire silver plated". I bought them from a DIY hobby shop. Originally you can make some kind of jewelry (earrings, necklace, bracelets...etc) from them.
Thank You for the support. If anyone have some advise please do not hold back
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
it is doubtful that the wire you have used will do the job you would like it to do...
if aluminum or copper bonsai wire is not available, you can get regular copper wire and anneal it yourself (fun and easy)
when removing the wire, do not untwist it, simply cut it off with a wire cutters.
the branch can be removed with a regular garden pruning shears, though the cut will not be as nice, so do not cut it flush to the trunk as you can always go back when you have a proper tool and make it nice.
water-proof wood glue can be used to seal the wound after the cut.
if aluminum or copper bonsai wire is not available, you can get regular copper wire and anneal it yourself (fun and easy)
when removing the wire, do not untwist it, simply cut it off with a wire cutters.
the branch can be removed with a regular garden pruning shears, though the cut will not be as nice, so do not cut it flush to the trunk as you can always go back when you have a proper tool and make it nice.
water-proof wood glue can be used to seal the wound after the cut.
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
What does the tree look like from the back left hand corner? I am thinking that might be a good view.
Last edited by Marty Weiser on Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added more)
Marty Weiser- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
This looks more like zelkova serrata than chinese elm, however, the same cultivation and treatment.
Some call zelKova "Japanese gray bark elm."
Some call zelKova "Japanese gray bark elm."
augustine- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
The pictures work. My idea is to have the trunk and big heavy branch form a V that continues to split as you move up the tree. You would lose some of the lower branches. This would be a fairly traditional broom style, but I think it is better than having a big heavy branch in the front.
Marty Weiser- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Marty Weiser wrote:The pictures work. My idea is to have the trunk and big heavy branch form a V that continues to split as you move up the tree. You would lose some of the lower branches. This would be a fairly traditional broom style, but I think it is better than having a big heavy branch in the front.
It is a good idea. But my question when I should do this? I was re-potted the bonsai on 31.03.2015 not fully one month ago. During the re-potting i cut back the roots, now during the wiring process the bonsai lost the high amount of the leaves. Now my bonsai have no roots and leaves.
Now i dig out my tree and rotate to the right position or should I wait for the next spring and re-pot again?
Other question:
As I see the bonsai growing new sprouts from the middle of the main trunk (see attached picture). I think I have to wait to make 7-8 leaves long to the bonsai can create more energy for the growing new foliage. Am I right?
Or should I cut down them as soon as possible to make sure the bonsai make leaves on the available branches? (in this case i think I risk to the bonsai run out of the current stock of energy and can't obtain new nutrition from the soil)
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
kenikol wrote: Now i dig out my tree and rotate to the right position or should I wait for the next spring and re-pot again?
no need to repot now... wait until next year...
also no need to worry about establishing the "front" of the tree in the front of the pot until the tree itself is established.
having a general future plan for a "front" is a good idea, but do not be surprised when the "front" changes
and changes
and changes
and changes again
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
that is actually a knob cutter...
this should help:
http://guide.makebonsai.com/how-to-use-bonsai-tools
Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
beer city snake wrote:kenikol wrote: Now i dig out my tree and rotate to the right position or should I wait for the next spring and re-pot again?
no need to repot now... wait until next year...
also no need to worry about establishing the "front" of the tree in the front of the pot until the tree itself is established.
having a general future plan for a "front" is a good idea, but do not be surprised when the "front" changes
and changes
and changes
and changes again
OK I will do it in the next spring.
In other hand should I re-arrange the wired branches now, to look good with the rotated new front view? I think it should be a good idea because in this year the bonsai look not so good but In the next year I got a tree with a good foliage and a good shape. All I will have to do to re-pot into a good position.
Thanks
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Hello,
a small update. The tree is growing well.
Many new little branches comes up from the maint trunk and from the middle of the tree:
Should I do something the small new branches or leave them growing? I'm patient and I don't want to cut them back if it is not necessary, because the new leves produce more energy to the tree.
a small update. The tree is growing well.
Many new little branches comes up from the maint trunk and from the middle of the tree:
Should I do something the small new branches or leave them growing? I'm patient and I don't want to cut them back if it is not necessary, because the new leves produce more energy to the tree.
kenikol- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
If you don't want or need them cut them off. Be mindful that everytime you cut something off of one of these trees they will push out a bud somewhere. That is what makes elm trees so great. If you cut something off you wish you hadn't there is no need to worry,it will grow back.
Also you need to keep an eye on those wires. These trees grow fast as the wire will be fine one day the next it's digging in. I usually only have to leave it on for no more than 3 weeks once the tree starts growing.
Also you need to keep an eye on those wires. These trees grow fast as the wire will be fine one day the next it's digging in. I usually only have to leave it on for no more than 3 weeks once the tree starts growing.
M. Frary- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Hi Kenikol
The unwanted branches in the last photo should have ben removed as they emerged long time ago, as they will make a unwanted clump in the middle of the trunk, like the are now... now will they make problems with thick callus, when they are removed, but they should be removed now, if you dont want them....As they are now, would I consider to remove the trunk in the middle, and one of the thin branch in both sides, then you can avoid the unwanted clump.
Kind regards Yvonne
The unwanted branches in the last photo should have ben removed as they emerged long time ago, as they will make a unwanted clump in the middle of the trunk, like the are now... now will they make problems with thick callus, when they are removed, but they should be removed now, if you dont want them....As they are now, would I consider to remove the trunk in the middle, and one of the thin branch in both sides, then you can avoid the unwanted clump.
Kind regards Yvonne
Guest- Guest
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Here are some links that helped me, you will find them useful
http://bonsaibark.com/2009/11/02/pruning-deciduous-bonsai-2-chinese-elm/
http://www.cutebonsaitree.com/branch-rules.html
http://bonsaijournal.com/elm-pinching.php
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/creating-chinese-elm-bonsai-part-1/
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/creating-chinese-elm-bonsai-part-2/
Here are some threads and comments from members on here, ive learnt so much from every single one.
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t8418-chinese-elm-need-a-new-design
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t10332-chinese-elm
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2285-clean-sweep-show-us-your-brooms
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t4044-oak-style-broom-elm-evolution
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11595-pruning-chinese-elm
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t6174-ulmus-parvifolia-5-years-progression
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2224-which-broom-a-chinese-elm-one
Its looking a lot better now, as others have said, prune off the the growth you dont want and concentrate in focusing the energy into the branches you want to keep, let the primary, secondary and tertiary branches grow out and in winter later winter you can tidy it all up again keeping within your broom image. you will have a better idea after reading all these links
Start looking at some of the old Oak trees in the parks and take pics of how the branches grow, note the way on most deciduous trees, the primary branches want to rise up and the secondary branches sometimes droop..on some old trees the lowest branches are so heavy they either sag or go horizontal, but this isnt always the case, check the huge Oak in my avatar... really its all about figuring out what works well for your particular tree.
http://bonsaibark.com/2009/11/02/pruning-deciduous-bonsai-2-chinese-elm/
http://www.cutebonsaitree.com/branch-rules.html
http://bonsaijournal.com/elm-pinching.php
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/creating-chinese-elm-bonsai-part-1/
http://blog.dallasbonsai.com/creating-chinese-elm-bonsai-part-2/
Here are some threads and comments from members on here, ive learnt so much from every single one.
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t8418-chinese-elm-need-a-new-design
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t10332-chinese-elm
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2285-clean-sweep-show-us-your-brooms
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t4044-oak-style-broom-elm-evolution
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11595-pruning-chinese-elm
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t6174-ulmus-parvifolia-5-years-progression
https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2224-which-broom-a-chinese-elm-one
Its looking a lot better now, as others have said, prune off the the growth you dont want and concentrate in focusing the energy into the branches you want to keep, let the primary, secondary and tertiary branches grow out and in winter later winter you can tidy it all up again keeping within your broom image. you will have a better idea after reading all these links
Start looking at some of the old Oak trees in the parks and take pics of how the branches grow, note the way on most deciduous trees, the primary branches want to rise up and the secondary branches sometimes droop..on some old trees the lowest branches are so heavy they either sag or go horizontal, but this isnt always the case, check the huge Oak in my avatar... really its all about figuring out what works well for your particular tree.
BobbyLane- Member
Re: Chinese Elm- First repotting
Hey guys, you Really Did Good!
Nice to see good helpful post and no bickering.
Good job. Thanks
Nice to see good helpful post and no bickering.
Good job. Thanks
DougB- Member
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