Bonsai or Not?

ess1 Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:06 am

Am visiting one of me daughters in Kuala Lumpur. In her garden she has what I consider a bonsai. She doesn't.

Who is correct and what species is it please?

Shayn Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:38 am

That tree is a Ficus Ginseng. Great for beginners who would like to get a rough feel for bonsai, but it isnt used as other species such as Elms, Maples, Junipers etc etc..
Ficus Ginseng is really the easiest tree you could ever hope for. It can really handle ALOT of neglect.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:23 pm

i dont believe that to be a gingsing ficus based on the character of the trunk, though i could be wrong.
another angle or two, along with closer shots of the leaves would help in a positive i.d...

i am leaning toward green island ficus based on what i can make out of the leaves...
but the trunk almost looks retusa-ish.

and ficus in general are very widely used for bonsai by both newbies and established artists.

regarding if it is a bonsai, the almost literal translation of bonsai is: tree in pot or tree in tray.
so, yes it is a "bonsai".

leatherback Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:56 pm

I would not consider this a bonsai. It is however a plant that could be styled to become a bonsai. And consisdering the state it is in, it could become a bonsai in a fairly short period of time, assuming the right caretaker.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:45 pm

leatherback wrote:I would not consider this a bonsai. It is however a plant that could be styled to become a bonsai. And consisdering the state it is in, it could become a bonsai in a fairly short period of time, assuming the right caretaker.

if only finished bonsai can be considered bonsai, then very few of us have any bonsai... Wink

Precarious Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:34 pm

I know what it is! Something that should be in my garden! Well...not right now. It's only 20F. But definitely in my tropicals room. And I know this about bonsai. It's hard to pin down what IT is. But I would train it as a literati, were it mine.

leatherback Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:34 pm

beer city snake wrote:if only finished bonsai can be considered bonsai, then very few of us have any bonsai...

I would agree with your conclusion. Very few of us have bonsai. I think too many people call a simple plant in a pot a bonsai. For me there needs to be a certain level of development, e.g., ramnification, balanced foliage with branching, organized chaos in the canopy etc. However, I do not like the idea that a bonsai is finished. I think a tree in a pot can at some point be considered a bonsai. After that, it can get better and better.

I have 0 bonsai. I have many plants in pots, on their way to bonsaihood.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:46 pm

fair enough for me... ThumbsUp

i personally have many bonsai, and none but 1 or 2 are ready for "the contest" (aka "the big show"). Wink

and ess1 - dont let our friendly bantering discourage you...

ess1 Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:54 am

Thank you all for taking the time and trouble to reply. Your "banter" is illuminating Very Happy

I look forward, upon return to UK, to purchasing an outdoor bonsai after visiting the Shropshire Bonsai Society.

All my previous efforts have resulted in disasters!

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Sat Feb 21, 2015 4:01 am

ess1 wrote:All my previous efforts have resulted in disasters!

there are many "easier" trees which are great for building not only confidence, but horticultural skills as well.

but the most important skill is having fun and enjoying the effort.

leatherback Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:24 pm

beer city snake wrote:
ess1 wrote:All my previous efforts have resulted in disasters!
but the most important skill is having fun and enjoying the effort.

ess1 Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:06 am

beer city snake wrote:i dont believe that to be a gingsing ficus based on the character of the trunk, though i could be wrong.
another angle or two, along with closer shots of the leaves would help in a positive i.d...

i am leaning toward green island ficus based on what i can make out of the leaves...
but the trunk almost looks retusa-ish.

and ficus in general are very widely used for bonsai by both newbies and established artists.

regarding if it is a bonsai, the almost literal translation of bonsai is: tree in pot or tree in tray.
so, yes it is a "bonsai".

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:26 pm

i'm no ficus expert, but due to the shape of the leaves being somewhat wide-ish, with the more rounded rather than pointed tips, i will stick with my initial guess of green island ficus.

but of course trunk and branch shots help as well...
somewhere on here jim lewis has a post on how to shoot photos when asking for tree i.d.,
but i cant seem to find it.

ess1 Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:49 am

Some 'photos.

Last week had very heavy storm with damage to bedroom. Surrounding area of Valencia - for those who know KL - suffered tree uproots. Bonsai? survived Very Happy

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:38 pm

i'm sticking with my guess of tiger bark ficus, but would like to see what a more knowledgeable person thinks...

if you are looking for ideas for styling this tree, just ask.

it looks like you have several advantageous branches popping out way down on the trunk which will be useful if you ever considered applying some bonsai techniques (which could move it along to becoming a pretty cool little tree).

AlainK Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:04 pm

I think this is a grafted Ficus. The rootstock may be Ficus microcarpa, or F. benjamina, or any fast-growing Ficus in the tropical country (prob. china) where it was cultivated.

The leaves at the top are probably a variety with smaller leaves and shorter internodes: the leaves where it backbudded lower on the trunk (the rootstock) seem much more pointed, whereas the leaves at the top are more rounded.

I have a (very ugly) "Ficus ginseng" that was given to me, and the cuttings I took from branches that appeared lower on the trunk show the same kind of differences.

The ugly Ficus I'm planning to air-layer where the grafts start:

Bonsai or Not? 20150305165550-67dcacc3-me

Bonsai or Not? 20150305165550-67dcacc3-me

The grafts. Look at the square scar on the right, notice the difference in the bark colour - the scions could be Ficus retusa:

Bonsai or Not? 20150305165552-a503bcd5-me

Bonsai or Not? 20150305165552-a503bcd5-me

The cuttings from the rootstock (probably Ficus microcarpa itself):

Bonsai or Not? 20150305165554-91597c93-me

From time to time, discount stores here in Europe (Aldi, Lidl) have them on sale for a rather cheap price.

**Kevin S - Wisco Bonsai** Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:39 pm

i was going to edit my previous post as i realized i typed tiger bark rather than green island, but didnt want someone thinking "hey... thats not what he said an hour ago..." Wink

and now that you point it out, i agree with the grafting thought.

the pointier leaves and trunk coloration on the lower close up trunk looks tiger bark-ish, while the leaves in the upper part definitely looks green island-ish (tiger bark being ficus retusa and green island being microcarpa i believe)

Ryan Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:49 pm

beer city snake wrote:
the pointier leaves and trunk coloration on the lower close up trunk looks tiger bark-ish, while the leaves in the upper part definitely looks green island-ish (tiger bark being ficus retusa and green island being microcarpa i believe)

microcarpa = retusa

Retusa is just an older, outdated name for microcarpa. I agree with the others though that this is definitely grafted. Looks like Green Island grafted onto Tiger Bark. When it backbuds it does so with Tiger Bark growth. A pretty decent trunk.

ess1 Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:19 am

Interesting posts. Thanks for continuing them.

I am returning to England on 10th March so will not see tree for at least 12 months!

LanceMac10 Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:05 am

Yikes....that's like taking your kid to the playground. Then leaving him there...hava' 'art, sir....(cue the moppet...)

ess1 Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:36 am

I do not think HM Customs, let alone airline or the Dept. of Agriculture (or whatever those hardworking beaurocrats are now titled), would appreciate my taking it home. Let alone our climate!

LanceMac10 Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:54 am

Damn government. Its a Ficus, maybe it can make it on his own. Tuck some currency in amongst the branches and leave it on the steps of the next house down. Ring the bell and walk calmly away....Fig I've had for a couple of years....come on spring.

ess1 Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:07 am

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