old ulmus nire

Photographie of my very old ulmus , collected by air layering 7 years ago, the trunk is twisted et completely hollow , bark with squares of "chocolate" , pot by john PITT

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Hi abcd

This is a very nice bonsai..very eatable...how old do you think the plant was before airlayering? pot and stand is nice with the tree

Kind regards Yvonne

Hi, very difficult to answer, we can't count the dark circles because the trunk is a tube !!!!!!!
In bonsai, it's not important , age it's seems is important

Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie or shrimp scampi. What species is it?
Sometimes the age of a yamadori is estimated by counting the rings on a nearby tree about the same size.
Iris

ULMUS CAMPESTRIS
In France we use NIRE ( i understand that's a mistake ) for ulmus with a bark with squares chocolat .

This is very nice, really like that old bark!

Hi check this reply out...Given from Darky on page 3

https://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t9762p30-5-ulmus-nire-cuttings-facing-5th-growingseason?highlight=ulmus+nire

May be interesting to read.

Kind regards Yvonne

What a gorgeous bark on a lovely tree.  

Beautiful tree! Incredible bark! Lovely pot and stand. My postal address is ....  

A remarkable styling on this old Ulmus glabra.

Though not a 'Nire-keyaki' (), a really beautiful tree.  

Félicitations !

I dont think it is a glabra,,,We have theese trees in the nature, and I never saw this kind of bark, they are always smooth...It does look more like a Ulmus carpinifolia to me...maybe a Minor.

Kind regards Yvonne

Apparently, Ulmus minor is not a valid term :

SITI: Ulmus minor

It should be Ulmus procera

Ulmus carpinifolia is listed as a "non accepted" synonym of Ulmus procera.

Ulmus glabra (the Wych elm) can have shaggy ridges on the bark on older specimens, but on second thought, it's more probably an "English elm".

But if it is an "English elm", it's Ulmus procera

The evolving taxonomy on elms seems to be a source of a lot of confusion

Excellent tree, well done!

Tres Bon!

bonsaisr wrote:Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie
Iris

sorry Iris but within our bonsai culture nire is perfectly valid to describe the chinese elm variety that has smaller darker leaves than normal and very textured bark - it is used both at nurseries & on import lists to differentiate between the normal smother barked chinese elm and this variety - you can't pigeon hole every tree into a specific named latin species when the japanese or chinese have just selected a tree within a named genus because it has interesting characteristics and propagated from it to make nice bonsai. i feel too many people these days are desperate to classify and name plants when they should just be observing species variants and treating them as a bonus if they make good bonsai.

you'd probably hate it that there is no variety name or latin classification in existance for two of my best japanese imported collected junipers - they don't go in for it preferring instead to use a trained eye and just call them juniper -the japanese nurseryman where they were sourced called them coastal juniper as they came from sea cliffs ! but in the USA a coastal juniper is a very different tree all together.

great elm by the way, very very nice

cheers marcus

nice and beautifull tree!
thank for sharing!

The main problem is to retain the beauty of the dead wood.
a protection is needed when it rains.
I use also a resin-based product for treatment of worm-eaten wood
some wood glue to pick up the broken pieces
but despite my efforts, in recent years, the dead wood will be gone, bonsai is never finished

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Awesome elm, thanks for sharing

This an amazing and beautiful tree. Have you tried a natural penetrating oil such as linseed or saflower oil to preserve the dead wood? Deciduous trees that have dead wood seem to rot very fast. I believe this is due to the amount of moisture deciduous trees require as oppsed to coniferous types. That being said. A penetrating oil of natural derivation will keep the dead wood from drying out as well as protect it from the elements. It will need to be applied several times throughout the year but I feel this will work. Parafin wax could be a great wood conditioner as well. I used to stain cedar decks in the US in nasty rural zones that got a lot of lime dust, torrential down poures, and extreme humidity. We always used a penetrating parafin based oil preservative on the cedar and have seen results that have lasted 15 years or better with regular scheduled treatments. I have an ulmus that I can not seem to identify. In my area it should be classified as an American Elm, or Ulmus Thomasii. But the bark is not characteristic of even the oldest elms in my area. Given. I collected it from an abandoned rock quarry. It was growing out of a shale dune.

marcus watts wrote:

bonsaisr wrote:Nire is the Japanese word for any elm. Calling your tree Ulmus nire is like saying pizza pie
Iris

sorry Iris but within our bonsai culture nire is perfectly valid to describe the chinese elm variety that has smaller darker leaves than normal and very textured bark - it is used both at nurseries & on import lists to differentiate between the normal smother barked chinese elm and this variety - you can't pigeon hole every tree into a specific named latin species when the japanese or chinese have just selected a tree within a named genus because it has interesting characteristics and propagated from it to make nice bonsai. i feel too many people these days are desperate to classify and name plants when they should just be observing species variants and treating them as a bonus if they make good bonsai.

you'd probably hate it that there is no variety name or latin classification in existance for two of my best japanese imported collected junipers - they don't go in for it preferring instead to use a trained eye and just call them juniper -the japanese nurseryman where they were sourced called them coastal juniper as they came from sea cliffs ! but in the USA a coastal juniper is a very different tree all together.

great elm by the way, very very nice


cheers marcus

Hear hear! Well spoken!

@ abcd   I do love chocolate.   The age of the trunk in contrast with the mass of fresh green foliage.  Brave decision with the air layer.  Well done.

@ Marcus   Taxonomy makes sense.  We can challenge it, we can even have some valid doubts about it, but thats all we can do.   It is here to stay for the good of all of us/ our trees in the pots

My mother used to call me a sweetheart.  My wife calls me " hey you", for my kids I am " an old man", for many others just "f... b..."  But for the tax office I am the payer Vladimír Tous, ID .....  

From this perspective I am quite happy if the bonsai keepers/dealers call a specific variety of Ulmus parviflora  a Nire. Or if in France the Ulmus Nire means a brest with chocolate bark. If they like it why not. Or?


Frankly and sadly it would be just great if we could spend our times on such "discussions"  .  Unfortunately we have entered into the war zone.  

FRANCE. WE ARE WITH YOU.