butchery and tomfoolery

I have a larch which i picked up at the Coventry expo a couple of years ago. I've basically ballsed it up. I won't post a picture because you'll all point and laugh

I want to try a root over rock planting, and I thought I might just chop this ruined larch righ back, shorten it and cut off all the existing branches, hoy it on the rock and let it start again as a much smaller tree.

Questions:
1) Is this a REALLY stupid idea?
2) If not, should I just do it now and see what happens? Not an expensive tree so don't really mind if it shuffles off this mortal coil.
3) should I chop it back and chuck it into the ground then rock plant it in a couple of years to reduce the stress?
4) Should I do it all, but wait until the tree is dormant?
5) should I give up and get a different hobby?
6) should I chop it now, but wait until dormancy to tie it around the rock. I have already been severley telt off for fiddling about with roots.

If you cut a Larch below any foliage it will definitely die. There must be another option for this tree but without seeing it i cannot comment

really, you don't. It's rank. If I leave some foliage on, a couple of branches say, then chop it, will that do to keep it going?

Usually yes, but don't attempt to put it over a rock until next spring.

Alternatively, you could try the method I devised for some of my trees after getting back from the Wirral show on Sunday.

(1) Select those trees which you consider to be of inferior quality.
(2) Remove all soil/medium from the roots (You don't have to worry about being gentle here)
(3) Select heavy rocks just large enough to fit snugly within the root system (Half bricks will suffice)
(4) Wrap roots around rock, wrap tape around whole.
(5) Launch resulting bundle in the general direction of a large body of very deep water.

Works for me.

Very funny! Weve all been there

Harleyrider wrote:Alternatively, you could try the method I devised for some of my trees after getting back from the Wirral show on Sunday.

(1) Select those trees which you consider to be of inferior quality.
(2) Remove all soil/medium from the roots (You don't have to worry about being gentle here)
(3) Select heavy rocks just large enough to fit snugly within the root system (Half bricks will suffice)
(4) Wrap roots around rock, wrap tape around whole.
(5) Launch resulting bundle in the general direction of a large body of very deep water.

Works for me.

I'd have nen left then.

Bobby,
To one degree or another we have all made our own bonsai mistakes. You are just brave enough to share it here. Good for you my friend.
The regulars here can be a great resource for good friendl advice, with a good smattering of tongue in cheek humour.
Just don't make the same mistake twice.

Is it's past the point of no return with your preset larch? A picture would help. You come this far, how bad can it be?

Finally, if you are looking for cheap, but better than average yamadori raw material, you might like to attend Dragon's Bonsai boot sale on the 6th September 2009.
For Details click here.

Yes nothing left but the background! Ive found myself leaning from side to side to see around the back of the tree. I propose a vote for 3D forums. How sad am i ?

In my experience, Larch are very hardy and very tolerant of harsh treatment.
Two sure ways of killing a larch.
1. Touch the root when it is in leaf.. All too common beginners mistake
2. Cut of all the foliage. (So there is no "food factory.") Mmmmmm.... that just might be a first.
Caterpillar attack, allowing to get heavily pot bound and / or failure to water for an extended period , all good way to lose a branch or 3.

Having never tried Harleyrider's,

Launch resulting bundle in the general direction of a large body of very deep water.

I cannot comment, but intuitively, it would probably work well.

uro wrote:Bobby,
To one degree or another we have all made our own bonsai mistakes. You are just brave enough to share it here. Good for you my friend.
The regulars here can be a great resource for good friendl advice, with a good smattering of tongue in cheek humour.
Just don't make the same mistake twice.

Is it's past the point of no return with your preset larch? A picture would help. You come this far, how bad can it be?

Finally, if you are looking for cheap, but better than average yamadori raw material, you might like to attend Dragon's Bonsai boot sale on the 6th September 2009.
For Details click here.

bugger. It's my daughter's 13th birthday on the 7th, and as she'll be at school we're using the sunday to have the proper celebrations, otherwise I'd have made the hike to Swansea from Coventry.

RE: the doomed larch, I bought it from a chap at the coventry do two years ago as it looked interesting and had what I saw as potential.I had one idea, and did some work on it, then changed my mind and did something else, which ruined the look of it. Then I decided that if I just wire it 'here, then here', it will help, but I left the wire on too long and lost some branches. Since then other than feeding and watering it, I've pretty much neglected it. On the anual family jaunt to Cornwall I found some nice rocks on the beach, one of which seems to compliment the basic lean of the tree, hence my thought about my first foray into root over rock planting. Stripping the tree back would give me the chance to learn about starting something from scratch for the first time.

However, with my knackered elderly chinese elm (see peeling bark thread), this, and a bunch of larch saplings I want to plant for a couple of years for a group planting, I'm going to have more trees in the bloody ground than in pots

More seriously, bonsai is a very long journey. When i first started i wanted one of everything. Mainly garden center stuff [bargain area]. Iwould take this home, wire it, style it and tick it in a pot. Some would live and some would die. I was very impatient. As time went on i got more involved in the bonsai scene and realised my trees were never going to be anything special[not in my lifetime].So instead of paying pennies for loads, i would save my money and just buy one. Ialso started asking permission to dig from gardens, wasteland and forrestry commision land. I also swapped some of my first trees and collected material for yamadori, thus keeping the cost of my hobby affordable. I dont regret those first trees at all as they gave me a good foundation in horticulture, wiring and styling, and above all patience. Try not to get frustrated, you will get there in the end.

I know what you mean. I spent a hundred quid on my first tree and I've slowly improved it over the last four years. Still has a long long way to go though. I threw a few quid at a cork bark elm two years ago and have cocked that up, but I have some ideas about how to rescue it and I'm allowing it grow out a bit in some areas and vigorously pinching it back in other areas that are ok to maintain it.

I'm lucky though, that there's top bloke in cov who owns a small plot of land where he grows material, and so far I've bought the doomed larch from him, a good sized hornbeam which I'm waiting for the autumn to start work on and a good sized elm with the same plan. they are all good sizes and in total have cost me just under a hundred quid. Next plan is for a maple. I think I'll post some pictures of them all and ask for ideas about styling, since I have nee idea what I'm doing really.

There's also a nice chap in Lutterworth who sells yamadori at reasonable prices too. Has some of that pink hawthorn stuff ( don'tr know it's name) for twenty quid so will treat myself there too.