Japanese Maple Cultivar

I'm new to this forum, and I can't figure out exactly how to post a picture, using my iPhone. But I'm wondering if anyone might know the cultivar of Walter Pall's Japanese maple. It's all over the Internet, I'm sure it's won prizes and what not. It's the one with the bright red leaves and the white bark. I'm sure everyone has seen the picture that I'm talking about. I love this tree and want to try and find one, either for bonsai, or at least for my yard. Also if someone identifies it, maybe they could let me know where to get one, if there might be a respected website that might sell and ship it, good/bad things about them, and any extra stuff I might need to know about them. (I love to read, so if anyone knows where I could read a good bit about them online, I'd appreciate it). Thanks in advance.

Walter is a member of this forum and I'm sure he would not mind you sending him a PM to ask the question directly rather than have people giving you their guesses. Hope you get an answer.

it is a Deshojo

the white bark is because of lime sulfur and the tree died a couple of years ago

a few links for you
http://walter-pall.de/maplesjapanese_maple_nr__7.jpg.dir/index.html

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2007/04/red-maple-and-others.html

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2008/01/maple-fungus-problems.html

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2009/03/very-sad-moment.html

Wow. This is kinda disheartening. My eyes were set on this being my next project. Does anyone know of another cultivar that could be similar to this one? Perhaps Seigen?

hi,
Why be disheartened? it is a shame the actual tree appears to have died but the variety is hardy enough if you can offer the tree the correct conditions

Deshojo is by far the easiest and toughest of the bright red cultivars you can get as long as you offer perfect conditions. They are not the absolute brightest red but you still get really nice colour - better still is shindeshojo - this means 'new deshojo' and was an improved variety with better colour that stays red longer, classified in the late 1960's.

Following on from these you get beni maiko (probably the variety of the first tree in my ibc gallery) - this is a nice variety - the petiols (leaf stalks)are shorter than the 2 deshojo types, so it looks more compact on the branches. the red colour stays perfect for about 2 months, where it can fade quicker on deshojos, but not an easy tree to find as a bonsai by any means -

seigen is more of a pinky variety with very delicate leaves - no where near as hardy as the trees above, so i would not start with this until you have perfected other easier red varieties in your location.

i wouldnt say they all start dying off after 25 years though - i know of many older trees than that - but the tree needs to be kept airy inside with plenty of light and branches should be totally regrown regularly from inner shoots - it could be that old branches get weaker and are more likely to get fungus attacks

I'd look to acer specialist landscape growers though to be certain of an exact variety

good luck,

Marcus

I guess after reading those links, about the deshojo variety, I took it as the deshojo WILL be a huge let down and there's no way around it. I checked out your gallery and you have some nice trees. Your red maple is exacty what I want, or at least that's what I'm going to be aiming for. I'm going to go for it. I like the way the trees look and if it only lives 25 years then fine. Thanks for the help. I've found some pre bonsai(?) on a site called hollowcreeekbonsai.com. Has anyone heard or dealt with them? Or know of a better place?

Hi,

Excelent - go for it and enjoy the tree. I would not worry too much about if it will last 25 years - my tree is older than that - to be accurate the trunk is probably between 35 and 50 while the branches are about 10 or 12. The trick with all trees is new foliage, medium age branches, old trunk - and not so many trees you cant give each one time, space and attention. - I used to work in a famous arboretum - the acer stock plants are old and doing very well !

good luck Marcus

Thanks a lot man. I'm thinking about buying a few cheaper maples first, to hone my skills and hopefully save some money, but my birthday is in August and I've already hinted around to my fiancé, and my Dad about the deshojo. So hopefully in 10 or 15 years...or maybe 30, I can have some great looking trees like the ones I've seen on this site. So...keep an eye out for me, I'll be back in 30 years. A quick side question too, I've been looking at this site for about two weeks now, there's 87 pages to the Bonsai Discussion forum, and I'm on 73. Is that ok? Am I looking and reading too much? I can't help it but, when I get into something, I REALLY get into it. I've always been like that, but I guess bonsai is a lot healthier than things I obsessed over when I was 18. I just don't want to get burnt out on it.

I am curious what fungus Walter is referring to that inevitably prevents these trees from achieving great age.

My Deshojo came from Fred at Hollow creek and in spite of a vicious root pruning this spring has bounced back with the vigor of a Trident.

Freds Deshojos are all from air layered stock he bought about ten years ago, Deshojo is a hard variety to find in pre bonsai form on its own roots and as I looked around extensively last fall I can tell you Fred probably has the most in one spot in the country...Good fella to deal with, healthy trees overall, almost always in need of a repot

-Jay

That's good to hear, especially since buying online would probably be my only option for getting something like that...at least around where I live. It's kinda hard to figure out which one I'd want, because they only have one picture of each tree. So is there any certain thing I should look for, like low branches?

Mr. Carter wrote:That's good to hear, especially since buying online would probably be my only option for getting something like that...at least around where I live. It's kinda hard to figure out which one I'd want, because they only have one picture of each tree. So is there any certain thing I should look for, like low branches?

The pictures are very out of date, Luckily for you you can pop these puppies in the ground and fatten them up nicely down in GA without fear of die back. Just look for a good trunk shape branches come later.

-Jay

So I'm not even looking for a low branch to be a new leader, years down the road after I chop the trunk? I just read an article about trunk chopping, and it was a lot to take in, so I might of missed this part...so after my trunk gets fat, I chop it where I want my first branch to be. Then pick a new leader and let it grow. Then repeat where my second branch should be...and repeat on my third. But that sounds like I'd be chopping it down to a stump, to where there's not even a single branch or any growth. Is that right? I'm sure that me re-reading the article could clear this up. I need to stop being lazy.

Ok, I re-read, the re-re-read, and I think I understand now. Plus I'm probably getting ahead of my self too. But still, if any one has any advice, I'd would definitely still listen.

And oh yeah, Dr. Gonzo...nice choice for your name.

Yup you got it. I recommend you get a copy of 'Bonsai with japanese Maples' by Peter Adams. You will find all you need in there.
-jay

drgonzo wrote:I am curious what fungus Walter is referring to that inevitably prevents these trees from achieving great age.

Me too Jay,

I think a tree of any age can fall victim to a fungal attack if it is weakened but bonsai proves age has nothing to do with it really, as a deciduous tree can be repeatedly rejuvinated - new roots, new branches, new foliage - just the trunk must remain. The coralinium family - deshojo & shindeshojo. seigen, beni maiko etc have many bonsai examples of 40 yrs old and more so just pure age in years will not have anything to do with the trees ability to survive disease - it is about vigour, strength and living conditions

I dont know the exact tree, or the exact conditions that lead to its weakening and decline but it is certain that all bonsai acer branches need to be cut back quite hard and regrown quite regularly to retain strength and vigour (exactly the same as the roots when you think about it). I can see that in the west after many years hard work we see our tree reach the 'final' image and it becomes famous........so cutting it back hard to regrow again could be quite a hard choice to make - it is where we are all still a long way behind the japanese growers who have 100's of years of experience to fall back on.

nobody should chose to avoid a species because someone else had one die - you just need to learn from it.

marcus

Mr. Carter wrote:That's good to hear, especially since buying online would probably be my only option for getting something like that...at least around where I live. It's kinda hard to figure out which one I'd want, because they only have one picture of each tree. So is there any certain thing I should look for, like low branches?

Where, in Georgia, do you live? There are a couple of nice bonsai shops in Georgia and one or two across the line in North Florida and another up a bit north of Ga whose name I disremember.

I live in Savannah. I'm about four hours from Atlanta, and that seems to be where most of the bonsai nurseries are. I'm about two hours from Jacksonville, Florida but I haven't looked to see if there were any out that way. There is a bonsai nursery not far from me, but looking at their website, it didn't look like they had a whole lot of different trees. It was mostly kingsville, and ficus, some junipers and some kitohime Japanese maples. I don't think the maples turn red though, and that's kinda what I was wanting. I do plan on going out there sometime soon though.