Larger Waka Ebisu

**JimLewis** Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:43 pm

This is the tree from which the cutting that now is my mini Satsuki came from. It is in the midst of a minor redesign. That lower branch extended another 6-8 inches in a rather old-style Satsuki form that I decided I no longer liked. The branch is still in the process of filling out from the radical surgery, and the canopy above it also needs to move to the right a bit. Still, the flowers are pretty.

This one stands about 14 inches from the pot rim. It has been a bonsai since 1998.

Russell Coker Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:29 pm

Looks good, and your little one too.

We are lucky that such a good satsuki for bonsai ended up in the nursery trade here. 'Gumpo' is the worst, although my boss had 2 huge ones (for 'gumpo') in his collection in Japan.

Glaucus Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:41 pm

Can you comment a bit on that Russell?

I have some Shiroebisu cuttings. Not sure if they rooted but still alive after quite some time. Doesn't seem to be a very common cultivar, this white sport of Wakaebisu.

Russell Coker Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:14 pm

Glaucus wrote:Can you comment a bit on that Russell?

I have some Shiroebisu cuttings. Not sure if they rooted but still alive after quite some time. Doesn't seem to be a very common cultivar, this white sport of Wakaebisu.

Yes, that's my understanding. I think it's fairly new, and my azalea nut friend says that it is not in the nursery trade here. As a matter of fact, it may not even be in the USA at all. If anyone would have it here it would be Nuccio's. I met Julius Nuccio and his friend who was the president of Nippon Satsuki Kyokai in Kanuma 25 years ago. I have no idea if either one is still alive, and if the Nuccio's nursery is still importing satsuki from Japan. About the same time 2 guys from the National Arboretum showed up in Kanuma. Mr. Rokkaku loaded them up with satsuki to take back to Washington D.C., but I have no idea what they were or what happened to them.

Like me, 'wakaebisu' likes warmer weather and doesn't like the Kanuma winters! I only saw one the whole time I was there, and it came from Kyushu for a show.

Glaucus, please keep me in mind when you have one to share!

Sorry for the hijack.

Glaucus Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:40 pm

They were hardwood cuttings so they root slower. Some died so not sure if the ones still alive are actually rooting.
First off I need to be sure they actually grow good roots and then survive some winters. If I remove the bottles they are under now the new growth starts to shrivel.

Did you ever see European nurserymen in Kanuma? I don't understand quite well why the Europeans are a lot more conservative than the Americans. There are only a few satsuki and a few satsuki-types in trade here and rare to find them.

Right now I think it is really easy for certain licensed nurseries to import azalea bonsai from Japan to the EU while the US now has very strong regulations (I think). So it seems the tables are kinda turning.

Thanks for the picture Jim.

**JimLewis** Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:01 pm

I'm not sure if the regulations have loosened up here. Azalea are particularly susceptible to Sudden Oak Death (SOD), if I recall what Dr. Nina told me some time ago. SOD is prevalent in California, so, while getting an azalea into California may be OK, getting one OUT to another state may be another matter.

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

Leo Schordje Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:03 pm

Russell Coker wrote:
Glaucus wrote:Can you comment a bit on that Russell?

I have some Shiroebisu cuttings. Not sure if they rooted but still alive after quite some time. Doesn't seem to be a very common cultivar, this white sport of Wakaebisu.

Yes, that's my understanding. I think it's fairly new, and my azalea nut friend says that it is not in the nursery trade here. As a matter of fact, it may not even be in the USA at all. If anyone would have it here it would be Nuccio's. I met Julius Nuccio and his friend who was the president of Nippon Satsuki Kyokai in Kanuma 25 years ago. I have no idea if either one is still alive, and if the Nuccio's nursery is still importing satsuki from Japan. About the same time 2 guys from the National Arboretum showed up in Kanuma. Mr. Rokkaku loaded them up with satsuki to take back to Washington D.C., but I have no idea what they were or what happened to them.

Like me, 'wakaebisu' likes warmer weather and doesn't like the Kanuma winters! I only saw one the whole time I was there, and it came from Kyushu for a show .........

Thanks for the tip that 'Waka Ebisu' is from the warmer islands of Japan, I won't use it to test cold tolerance in zone 5. (area between Chicago & Milwaukee)

I got both my 3 year old whips of Waka Ebisu and Shiro Ebisu from Teleperion Farms, Oregon back in 2011. Their web site seems to be down and they haven't sent out an email list this year, I hope they were not another victim of the current economy. But both cultivars are in the US nursery trade. For what it is worth.

Glaucus Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:12 pm

Generally the satsuki with the narrow leaves are hardier. They have more R.indicum genes rather than R.tamurae (maruba satsuki) genes. R.indicum grows both in Kyushu and Honshu so the hardiest satsuki are the R.indicum cultivar from the Kanto area.

The US has some natively hybridized cultivar with satsuki blood. So those can be tried.

I am trying to hybridize some new cultivar here in Europe. We have many good hardy kurume type azalea here native to Europe. Much hardier then the Japanese progenitors. I think I am the first one to try to cross them. Last year seed didn't set on my 'Kozan' though. So Ill try again this year as using satsuki seed on earlier blooming kurume is kind of a problem. I had some frozen but I will have to find out if that works.

I think small flowering small leaved satsuki that are just as hardy as the hardiest kurume is very possible. But no one has tried so far.

Russell Coker Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:23 pm

Glaucus wrote:Generally the satsuki with the narrow leaves are hardier. They have more R.indicum genes rather than R.tamurae (maruba satsuki) genes. R.indicum grows both in Kyushu and Honshu so the hardiest satsuki are the R.indicum cultivar from the Kanto area.

Good point. I've mentioned in other satsuki threads that I can't grow 'kinsai' and 'matsunami' because they like colder weather. I remember the boss buying 5 really old, big 'matsu nami', supposedly the biggest known to exist. They had beautiful natural movement in big fat old trunks, but it wasn't from any bonsai training. They had been dug from a garden in Fukushima were they had been buried under snow for many many winters. Leo, try these, and if you come across 'shiro ebisu' again please let me know.

moyogijohn Tue May 01, 2012 1:06 am

JIM,, THIS is another nice one.. love the flowers !! take care john

xuan le Tue May 01, 2012 2:19 am

Russell Coker wrote:
Glaucus wrote:Can you comment a bit on that Russell?

I have some Shiroebisu cuttings. Not sure if they rooted but still alive after quite some time. Doesn't seem to be a very common cultivar, this white sport of Wakaebisu.

About the same time 2 guys from the National Arboretum showed up in Kanuma. Mr. Rokkaku loaded them up with satsuki to take back to Washington D.C., but I have no idea what they were or what happened to them.

When did this happen Rusell do you remember?
I know Jack (the Curator) I may get some infos about this
Xuan

Russell Coker Tue May 01, 2012 2:38 am

Xuan, waaay before Jack's time - I'm talking 1985 here.

It was Sylvester March (I think he passed away) and Richard Darke. Richard may have been at Longwood Gardens, that's where he was the last time I spoke with him in 1989. Damn I sound old.

Glaucus Tue May 01, 2012 11:01 pm

Russell, I think I asked you what you thought were the hardiest cultivar. I asked the same question to a Japanese satsuki professional and he gave the same answer so I told him I would be looking for 'Matsunami' here in Europe because I don't know of anyone that has 'Matsunami'. So he send me some cuttings as a gift.

Otherwise, I may have asked you. So 'Kozan' group, 'Matsunami' and 'Kinsai'. But 'Komei' and Kobai' *and the ones in that group) are listed as hardy in Callaham's book as well. But maybe he means hardy in California.

Then there's the ones with R.kiusianum genes like 'Kakuo' and 'Hoshi no Kagayaki'. They may be hardier than most satsuki. While R.kiusianum only grows in Kyushu, it does only grow above 1200 meters.

I found 'Kozan' here in the nursery trade. It is no longer for sale but the nursery selling it rated it with their highest hardiness rating. Now hardiness is not a straightforward thing, but it may mean it is hardier than some satsuki-type Robin Hill azaleas.
For me though, Kozan is one of the first plants that starts to grow in early spring. I protect it from late spring frosts, but it will probably damage the tender new growth.

As for azalea in drier southern areas, I hear Hirado type azalea do a lot better than satsuki. But they are probably the least ideal of all evergreen azalea for bonsai. They kind of look like lepidote rhododendron in a way with their huge leaves.

Russell Coker Wed May 02, 2012 3:04 am

I had a nice 'sachi-no-hana' that I brought home from Japan, but it eventually died. I'll ask my friend tomorrow, and check out what's going on with the satsuki collection at the botanical garden. I don't think the 'kozan' group is very happy here. I have some in the ground that may be 'kozan', but I'll have to dig around and see if I can find a tag. I have 'kobai' too, and it does fine here. The kurumes do ok here but would be happier in colder weather. I've never tried any of the hybrids or straight miyama kurishima.

**JimLewis** Sat May 05, 2012 5:14 pm

. . . I'm glad they're both still blooming.

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