Succulent Bonsai

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Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:11 pm

I want to show you wonderfull people a couple of my succulent Dwarf trees, tell me what you think. I'm not sure if they can be classified as bonsai.. but the same rules apply.. well almost; dont ever feed succulent bonsai!!! I will show you what I mean later. Ubove is Pachypodium Rosolatum 9 years old. Cheq out the baby at its foot, the baby is now 2years old!!!
Underneath is Pachypodium in my Succulent Garden, 9 years old
Pachypodium horomobense is 18 years old
Pachypodium lamerii 8 years old in my garden, note the stunning flowers
Tylocodon paniculata is a naturally formed bonsai that grew in a crevice of a rock, the trees in nature become up to 3m tall before falling over and then grow into a raft style, they only flower if it is a good raining season, then the terminal branch split into two, you can imagine how old this tree is!!

Underneath is Pachypodium cactipes, 12 years old; Look what happens when you feed them, stretch like shoots, will need to cut it back again before spring this year.
Aloe ramosissima in the raft style, 9 years old
Aloe dicotoma, the quiver tree, these are very very special and already 12 years old, to keep them this size , regular root pruning, ones or twice a season, if you trim the roots al the roots die back to the main stem, and completely deprived of water and feed!!
Euphorbia cylindrifolia var tuberifera, this plant is 12 years old, in the "creepy crawly style" , only some will find this funny!
Will add some more later, Hope you enjoyed them, as much as I love them!

Andre Beaurain
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Succulent Bonsai

Post  graham walker on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:00 pm

Andre
As a cactus and succulent collector and member of the British Cactus and Succulent Society (as well as bonsai), I really appreciate this post.
Your bonsai succulents would look good on the C&S showbench.
Interesting observations on root prunig. I imagine in your climate they will root up fairly easily?

Keep growing them well
Regards
Graham

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Joel T on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:29 pm

3 words, those are awesome.

keep up the great work. Very Happy

Joel T
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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:05 am

They are nice succulents.

Succulent are not bonsai.



regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Ryan on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:08 am

I think they're cool. Who cares whether or not they're bonsai, they look great no matter what thumbs up

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:21 am

Ryan wrote:I think they're cool. Who cares whether or not they're bonsai, they look great no matter what thumbs up


Like I said they are nice succulent....I have a miniature fish, smaller than the one from the wild, they look great too... Can I post it here in the bonsai section or in the general discussion section? probably I can do so, if they really look great and I'll call them "bonsai fish" Wink


...my point is we should be very careful in defining what a bonsai is, otherwise we might misled beginners and even some "experts" here. pirat

regards,
jun scratch

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  coh on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:48 am

I don't know who gets to define what can/can't be considered bonsai...but I offer for your perusal:

Brooklyn Botanic Garden Article on Succulent Bonsai

And...many people grow varieties of jade plant (a succulent) as bonsai.

Anyway...I enjoyed seeing these plants! Especially the Pachypodium Rosolatum (ouch! those thorns look nasty), the Tylocodon paniculata, and the dicotoma "forest".

coh
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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:04 am

BONSAI- tree in a pot.... Imho- succulents are not classified as trees, trees are woody plants that has many secondary branches and twigs and leaves on the twigs and branches. Succulents are fat plants retaining so much water, this is the reason why they cannot be trained as bonsai.


My simple definition...if it cannot be chopped down and be used as firewood or toothpick they are not trees.hehehe.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Todd Ellis on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:53 am

I love the creepy crawly succulent! Great fun! thumbs up I am learning, the hard way, how to care for two small elephant bushes; they are not happy.
Todd

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Justin Hervey on Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:55 am

Jun your "imho" probably says it all - It all comes down to opinions.
For me, if it looks like a tree in a pot then it is good enough to be called a bonsai.

Interestingly, here is Wikipedia's description of Portulacaria Afra: "It is a soft-wooded, semi-evergreen upright shrub or small tree".

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:42 am

Justin Hervey wrote:Jun your "imho" probably says it all - It all comes down to opinions.
For me, if it looks like a tree in a pot then it is good enough to be called a bonsai.

Interestingly, here is Wikipedia's description of Portulacaria Afra: "It is a soft-wooded, semi-evergreen upright shrub or small tree".


...not quite Justin. sometimes I just use "Imho" to sound not too aggressive. Wink

..but really, Potulacaria Afra belongs to- order: Caryopphyllales (Cacti), Purslane Family, Genus: Portulacaria:

Now the question is A "cacti family" a tree? NO! It is not!

The big difference between a cactus or succulents versus a tree are the way they eat or take nutrients and water. In a tree it is done in xylem, in CACTUS (succulents) it is done by vascular bundles of the plant.


That is just the technical or scientific difference between a tree and a succulent,The rest of the appearance can be very obvious. but just in case the appearance is still deceiving for some, just always refer to the taxonomy of the plant and verify it if it is the same as a "tree".

I hope I won't offend anybody, and I won't say "imho" this time. Some traders are just trying to redirect the factual definition of "bonsai" terms for business purposes... the same thing like this happened somewhere where palm trees were sold as a "bonsai" for a higher cost and to gain some interest on the miniature palms. And others would even try to redefine the word "tree" for the same purposes. I am not saying you guys are doing this but really some other people do.



regards,
jun Smile

regards,
jun Smile



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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:41 am

Thanks Graham, I also belong to the SA succulent society, and the British Haworthia society - learn alot form your annual Haworthiad magazine!!

Thanks Joel and many Thanks Ryan; my point exactly

Thanks Chris . I also agree with you.

Thanks Todd I think if you give them Full sunny hot spot, they would be very happy!

Thanks Jun, I didnt know you prune a fish? If its true what you utter then this isnt bonsai?



and then this isnt aswell... From Jimsmithbonsai.com



And what about Baobabs, They ARE SUCCULENTS! You want to tell me that a BAOBAB is not a tree?

The definition of a bonsai:bonĀ·sai (bn-s, bns, -z)
n. pl. bonsai
1. The art of growing dwarfed, ornamentally shaped trees or shrubs in small shallow pots or trays.
2. A tree or shrub grown by this method.

Jun also Portulacaria is NOT a CACTUS, African has only ONE cactus and that is Rhipsalis (Rats tail cactus, that grows all over the world on all the coastlines)
Cactussus are not found in Africa!! The Baobab, Jade tree, Porkbush, Adenias ect are ALL SUCCULENTS!! and can ALL be made into bonsai!!

A fish can NOT!



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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:56 am

Whoa!!Relax!!! relax!!!

No body wanted to pick up a fight here! I've been thru a lot of fight here in IBC, believe me it is not worth it. If you want to prove a point just say it so and don't trow your cool out of the window. remain calm and we can discuss this matter like bonsai lovers do if you want. This is your thread anyway and if you are not open to opinion other than yours just say it.
If your thread is not open to other ideas, say it so too. but like I said I like your succulents, they are nice cactus and succulent plants, but they are not trees in a pot.

regards,
jun Wink

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:24 am

Jun sorry,
sometimes to say things on here without a 'face', can be interred into different ways, if you knew me you would laugh,
I dont even kill ants.

This is an debate, not an argument!
please continue...

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Justin Hervey on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:25 am

Hi Jun. I get your point completely but (and I ask this, not rhetorically but because I do not know), do succulents not qualify as bonsai because it is a rule of bonsai or because it is an opinion that you hold?

Interesting discussion.


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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  -Brent- on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:31 am

Andre - very cool, I like 'em. I also liked your Eugenia and agree with the suggested improvements.


Jun,

Please revisit your posts in this topic - you come across as very argumentative and authoritative, and are continuing to do so.
I've read many of your posts over the past two years odd - you're a very talented, likeable fellow but I've not seen either of the aforementioned characteristics come from you.

Please lets close this "what-is and what-is-not bonsai" debate (You are right - it really is not worth it) and focus on the interesting "specimens" Andre has posted.

Brent







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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:42 am

Andre Beaurain wrote:Jun sorry,
sometimes to say things on here without a 'face', can be interred into different ways, if you knew me you would laugh,
I dont even kill ants.

This is an debate, not an argument!
please continue...


No Andre, No need to apologize. It is I who contradicted you in the first place...if in any way you are offended, my apology to you.

Anyway, There were several discussions here in the past (Baobab included) that I think would help us all. One of them is about palm trees being a bonsai.

...If indeed I am accidentally right, I think this issue should be addressed more seriously, to categorized succulent plants better and would be exhibited in a show not competing with deciduous, pines, conifers, tropicals etc.

But, believe me I love cactus and succulents, they were my very first plants I invested in before "tropical" trees took over.

your friend,
jun I love you


Last edited by jun on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:10 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:49 am

Brent W wrote:Andre - very cool, I like 'em. I also liked your Eugenia and agree with the suggested improvements.


Jun,

Please revisit your posts in this topic - you come across as very argumentative and authoritative, and are continuing to do so.
I've read many of your posts over the past two years odd - you're a very talented, likeable fellow but I've not seen either of the aforementioned characteristics come from you.

Please lets close this "what-is and what-is-not bonsai" debate (You are right - it really is not worth it) and focus on the interesting "specimens" Andre has posted.

Brent







hahaha

So you were here for a long time now... Every "Jedi" got a dark side!


Thank you for liking the "Dr Jekyll" in me.


regards,
jun Smile
jun Smile

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:57 am

Justin Hervey wrote:Hi Jun. I get your point completely but (and I ask this, not rhetorically but because I do not know), do succulents not qualify as bonsai because it is a rule of bonsai or because it is an opinion that you hold?

Interesting discussion.


That is an interesting question!

In Thailand, like the one Andre posted above, I think. Adenium were displayed along side " regular bonsai", but, were judged and categorized differently, See the tag in Andre's post- It says "2007 Suan Luang Adenium contest" and not "bonsai contest winner."
So, I think, they have already separated the specie from the "real bonsai" that we know of.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:10 am


Jun were cool..
I hear you about the palms, would love to read the tread,
In singapore you get many Banana bonsai, so I also put a Musa in a pot, and started with the training, well Im very happy with it , especially if you see how big they can become! The tapering of the stem is also amazing, and since the princesses came up, my Banana is an adult mat! (Mother, Daughter and Princess form a mat) She's 11 years old, never fruited!!

It makes sense that they cannot compete with other trees, but manupilating them to stay dwarfed, I called that bonsai!

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:12 am

Sorry here She is..


Andre Beaurain
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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:22 am

Thanks Andre!


Here is mine I got recently...Forest. Reminds me of our backyard in my childhood...the fruits are very small, very proportion to the trunk. See how slim the "leaves" are.





I told you, I like what you folks like! hehehe. If it is not a bonsai, I won't mind, as long as I like it.


regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:29 am

Wow Jun I'm impressed!! nice Matt

By the way Brent, thank you for commenting about my Eugenia, I still have to get over the idea of removing the bottom branch...

Andre Beaurain
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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Tom Simonyi on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:38 pm

Andre...my sincere thanks to you for posting these lovely specimens....also very much enjoyed the Adenium and Portulacaria specimens. This is a "tree" which is dear to me...Brighamia insignis, endemic to the sea cliffs on the Na'Pali Coast and Ha'upu Ridge on the island of Kauai. The flowers are very fragrant.

Regards,
Tom

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

Post  Tom Simonyi on Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:03 pm

Close up of the delicate flowers.

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Re: Succulent Bonsai

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