mutant trident?

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mutant trident?

Post  bucknbonsai on Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:23 am

I just dug about 30 trident seedlings that were 1-2 years old. They were planted in the same growing bed with same soil/water/light/space etc.. Most were only 20" tall and pipecleaner thickness, yet one of them was over 8 feet tall and 3/4" diameter. Is it possible it genetically will be more prone to becoming a larger bonsai quicker? Has anyone had a similar experience and noticed that a tree like this continues to put on more growth than others?, or is this just a fluke and within another year or two they will have all become about the same size?

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Re: mutant trident?

Post  attila on Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:19 am

sounds interesting i would take some cuttings from atleast 5 trees including the "sprinter" and run an experience if the cuttings behave the same way then you may have a mutant maple and maybe get rich selling them to impatient bonsai lovers Very Happy
regards
Attila

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Re: mutant trident?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:18 am

If these are indeed true seedlings and not clones then you may be experiencing the phenomena known as 'Hybrid Vigor'. If so then that growth trait will always be with that particular tree, yet its seedlings The F2 generation may well return to normal. Iris would know more about it than I do.

-Jay

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Re: mutant trident?

Post  bucknbonsai on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:47 am

yes, these are just random seeds I pulled off a tree. I was going to use them all for thread grafting roots but I think ill plant this one through a tile with a whole in it (i have all limbs pruned off, just a long whip is left). With my luck its genetic makeup will produce brown fall color rather than brilliant shades. I know there are lots of variables going into fall color, but it is true that some maple trees(within the same species) genetically seem to have amazing color every single fall, right? This is is the reason for all the grafted cultivars of acer rubrum I believe. In my experience acer rubrums i have collected in the fall when I can tell what color they have, have all ended up being rather ugly in the fall once moved to my garden.

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Re: mutant trident?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:48 am

Buck

As your own experience illustrates, after having moved A. rubrum to your garden, there are a lot more factors that come into play with regards to fall coloring, genetics is only one aspect. Climate and exposure to both sun and frost are also thought to play a major role, fertilization and chlorophyll development throughout the season are others. My experience with it is that genetics will be more determinant as to the timing of the color change not the color or vibrancy itself. An example is that some seedlings in a forest planting will begin to change earlier than others, yet ultimately achieve the same color.
-Jay

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Mutant Trident

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:01 pm

I'm flattered. I don't know that much about trident seedlings. Since they are all seedlings of the same single species, hybrid vigor is not involved. What could have happened is that precocious seedling may be a tetraploid, a mutant with twice the normal number of chromosomes. It may be suitable for bonsai, but you could also wind up with coarse growth. Let the seedlings grow leaves. You have to anyway. When they are in full leaf, examine the backs of some leaves with a magnifying glass. If you are lucky, you can see the stomata, the breathing holes through which the leaf takes in air & transpires water & CO2. On a tetraploid, the stomata tend to be bigger than normal.
Iris

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Re: mutant trident?

Post  drgonzo on Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:03 pm

bonsaisr wrote:I'm flattered. I don't know that much about trident seedlings. Since they are all seedlings of the same single species, hybrid vigor is not involved. What could have happened is that precocious seedling may be a tetraploid, a mutant with twice the normal number of chromosomes. It may be suitable for bonsai, but you could also wind up with coarse growth. Let the seedlings grow leaves. You have to anyway. When they are in full leaf, examine the backs of some leaves with a magnifying glass. If you are lucky, you can see the stomata, the breathing holes through which the leaf takes in air & transpires water & CO2. On a tetraploid, the stomata tend to be bigger than normal.
Iris

See, she did know more about t than I did! Very Happy
-Jay

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