Virgin Brush cherry
+2
Todd Ellis
Andre Beaurain
6 posters
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Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:34 am
Hallo o'ye Knowlegeable ones
This is my first Bonsai post, thanks to Fiona I figured out how to post pictures
Growing up and living in the Country, I fell in love with bonsai just after the Army (19). Never had any Bonsai training, only books (some of them very bad SA writers)As you can see I don't know much about bonsai. This Eugenia (Syzygium paniculatum) I started from a seedling that germinated in a crack of a stone, the stone is now lodged inside the curve on the base of the trunk. This tree was actually never wired before, and was just trained with clipping and bending the branches often. Now I need help from the Masters!!
This is my first Bonsai post, thanks to Fiona I figured out how to post pictures
Growing up and living in the Country, I fell in love with bonsai just after the Army (19). Never had any Bonsai training, only books (some of them very bad SA writers)As you can see I don't know much about bonsai. This Eugenia (Syzygium paniculatum) I started from a seedling that germinated in a crack of a stone, the stone is now lodged inside the curve on the base of the trunk. This tree was actually never wired before, and was just trained with clipping and bending the branches often. Now I need help from the Masters!!
Last edited by Andre Beaurain on Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Todd Ellis Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:57 pm
Andre,
I think you have a great job with your first tree. The books may not have been the best, but you must have read them because you followed the styling guidelines: alternated branches, foliage pads, and shaping. The moss on the roots at the base may pose a problem because the moss will keep the tree's "feet" too wet. Style and size are a matter of personal preference. Shortening the top and reducing the size of the foliage pads will enhance the thickness of the trunk, and add taper, making the tree appear older. Good job!
Best,
Todd
I think you have a great job with your first tree. The books may not have been the best, but you must have read them because you followed the styling guidelines: alternated branches, foliage pads, and shaping. The moss on the roots at the base may pose a problem because the moss will keep the tree's "feet" too wet. Style and size are a matter of personal preference. Shortening the top and reducing the size of the foliage pads will enhance the thickness of the trunk, and add taper, making the tree appear older. Good job!
Best,
Todd
Todd Ellis- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:57 pm
Thank you Todd, will make sure to remove the moss, and will shorten the tree, not sure where though, and which branch must form the new apex? Must I wire all the small branches to form ramification? Which side can be the front?
Can anyone do a virtual?
Can anyone do a virtual?
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
coh Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:20 pm
I agree with Todd. How long have you been working with this tree?
I'll try to spend some time with this later but some first impressions - I like the view of the tree in photo 1 the best, and think removing that lowest branch on the left would dramatically improve the appearance - maybe something like this:
Then maybe you'd have to re-grow a lower apex. Note I've also removed that long "aerial" root on the right side that is somewhat distracting.
I actually think the base looks more interesting from the reverse view, but the canopy is more difficult to assess - think you'd want to remove most of the foliage that obscures the trunk.
Any chance you could post new photos with a simple background? It's tough to do virts with all the distractions back there.
I'll try to spend some time with this later but some first impressions - I like the view of the tree in photo 1 the best, and think removing that lowest branch on the left would dramatically improve the appearance - maybe something like this:
Then maybe you'd have to re-grow a lower apex. Note I've also removed that long "aerial" root on the right side that is somewhat distracting.
I actually think the base looks more interesting from the reverse view, but the canopy is more difficult to assess - think you'd want to remove most of the foliage that obscures the trunk.
Any chance you could post new photos with a simple background? It's tough to do virts with all the distractions back there.
coh- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:25 pm
Thanks Chris, will take some less distracting photos tomorrow, ( Dark outside now) ,
the tree germinated in 1989
I know, a long time ago....
I think I will Airlayer the bottom branch then.. to just cut it off and discard ...ooo my freaking heart be still,
What I do learn from here is that drastic steps makes a good bonsai!!!
the tree germinated in 1989
I know, a long time ago....I think I will Airlayer the bottom branch then.. to just cut it off and discard ...ooo my freaking heart be still,
What I do learn from here is that drastic steps makes a good bonsai!!!
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Sat Apr 06, 2013 9:56 am
Update...
Its just over a year since cutting off the lower roots and Branches as it was suggested ...
Then later, I broke the top of by accident! Tried to wire it.......
Last week I did a virtual myself ( this is a feat in itself, I am actually Computer illiterate....I dont even have a Cellphone!!) Anyway this is what I've learned in a year, Some people may find this truly surprizing!,
I know, me too!
My Stunning virtual:
And the result on the tree.. I made a jin at the back.
Now it still looks not perfect to me.
Am I on the right track...Or have I fallen off it again?
Love and Light
Its just over a year since cutting off the lower roots and Branches as it was suggested ...
Then later, I broke the top of by accident! Tried to wire it.......
Last week I did a virtual myself ( this is a feat in itself, I am actually Computer illiterate....I dont even have a Cellphone!!) Anyway this is what I've learned in a year, Some people may find this truly surprizing!,
I know, me too!My Stunning virtual:
And the result on the tree.. I made a jin at the back.
Now it still looks not perfect to me.
Am I on the right track...Or have I fallen off it again?
Love and Light
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
tap pi lu Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:15 am
you can bend the branches like this, I find it more flexible
[img]
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tap pi lu- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:11 am
Thanks Tap pi lu,
Its so funny, One tries to straighten the branches, and when you succeed, now you must 'bow' them again.
I thought that that isn't the correct way. Do you have a reason for this? Does anyone else agree?
You guys are confusing me!
Love and light
Its so funny, One tries to straighten the branches, and when you succeed, now you must 'bow' them again.
I thought that that isn't the correct way. Do you have a reason for this? Does anyone else agree?
You guys are confusing me!
Love and light
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Guest Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:48 am
Hi Andre
I like your virtual very much....it is much more a tree to look at now, in the proportions...also does the pads have a nice density...not too much. Later will it become very dificult to maintain this openness.
Your branches are too straight horizontal, it is not considered pretty. Tap Pi Lu's option is better, but will if you are not carefull make the tree look like a juniper in a few years...on one of the photos, has it allready fallen into the trap.
Bending up the branches a little, will give you the oppertunity, to build up a crown, suitable for a tree with leafs. In this procces will you have to shorten the mainbranches, to be able to develope a crown growing up.
I dont know how your tree look in the nature...go and take a look, and see how it grow the crown, when not worked on, and try to copy...
Kind regards Yvonne
I like your virtual very much....it is much more a tree to look at now, in the proportions...also does the pads have a nice density...not too much. Later will it become very dificult to maintain this openness.
Your branches are too straight horizontal, it is not considered pretty. Tap Pi Lu's option is better, but will if you are not carefull make the tree look like a juniper in a few years...on one of the photos, has it allready fallen into the trap.
Bending up the branches a little, will give you the oppertunity, to build up a crown, suitable for a tree with leafs. In this procces will you have to shorten the mainbranches, to be able to develope a crown growing up.
I dont know how your tree look in the nature...go and take a look, and see how it grow the crown, when not worked on, and try to copy...
Kind regards Yvonne
Guest- Guest
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:26 am
Thanks Yvonne, really appreciate it!
Two against one....Ok I will fall for that.
So Tap pi Lu was right, my apologies to you my friend, for doubting you .
The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys. And I really want it to ' become beautiful' like somebody once said.
So is the length of the branches right? I willl do the necessary adjustments.
Eugenia paniculata comes from Australia, does anybody have a picture of how it looks in Nature. Ausssies??
Here in SA, as I suspect the rest of the world, we grow it as a hedge, you dont get anyting faster!!
Love and light
Two against one....Ok I will fall for that.
So Tap pi Lu was right, my apologies to you my friend, for doubting you .
The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys. And I really want it to ' become beautiful' like somebody once said.
So is the length of the branches right? I willl do the necessary adjustments.
Eugenia paniculata comes from Australia, does anybody have a picture of how it looks in Nature. Ausssies??
Here in SA, as I suspect the rest of the world, we grow it as a hedge, you dont get anyting faster!!
Love and light
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Khaimraj Seepersad Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:51 pm
Andre,
a few suggestions.
[1] Change from hedge clipping to the stork's leg. You use clip and grow, with V's. Think of negative spaces and how light will reach your branchlets.
That hedge clip technique will probably cause very bad dieback with time, plus your tree will never get that full look.
[ see my topic in this forum Bonsai Discussion - Defoliation, look at the placement of the branches and how the V technique works.]
[2] I see a problem with the second branch. Inidicated on the diagram with a circle. Less than perfect point for the second branch, and so I tried to grow over some branchlets and hide the joint.
Also don't let the branch fatten too much more.
[3] Fatten the first branch. Thicken the trunk [ should happen naturally ]
[4] Get a saucer and allow the roots to grow more sideways and less down. Seen on the diagram. This flatter shape may mimic the response in the ground better than a deeper pot.
[5] With the shading of the foliage mass I have tried to show you a three dimensional shape, as you have shown in previous images, of side, back and front.
[6] Lose the wire, and train by clip and grow, experiment as usual on an expendable other brush cherry. Okay.
You have a tree with great potential. Keep going, and remember freely draining soil.
Feel free to ask questions.
Remember, I am working from a flat image on a screen so please adjust to suit. At best this drawing shows a silhouette.
Later.
Khaimraj
a few suggestions.
[1] Change from hedge clipping to the stork's leg. You use clip and grow, with V's. Think of negative spaces and how light will reach your branchlets.
That hedge clip technique will probably cause very bad dieback with time, plus your tree will never get that full look.
[ see my topic in this forum Bonsai Discussion - Defoliation, look at the placement of the branches and how the V technique works.]
[2] I see a problem with the second branch. Inidicated on the diagram with a circle. Less than perfect point for the second branch, and so I tried to grow over some branchlets and hide the joint.
Also don't let the branch fatten too much more.
[3] Fatten the first branch. Thicken the trunk [ should happen naturally ]
[4] Get a saucer and allow the roots to grow more sideways and less down. Seen on the diagram. This flatter shape may mimic the response in the ground better than a deeper pot.
[5] With the shading of the foliage mass I have tried to show you a three dimensional shape, as you have shown in previous images, of side, back and front.
[6] Lose the wire, and train by clip and grow, experiment as usual on an expendable other brush cherry. Okay.
You have a tree with great potential. Keep going, and remember freely draining soil.
Feel free to ask questions.
Remember, I am working from a flat image on a screen so please adjust to suit. At best this drawing shows a silhouette.
Later.
Khaimraj
Khaimraj Seepersad- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Andre Beaurain Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:40 am
Khaimraj, with your virtual, I can see now where I have to go with this tree. It is Beautifull.
Is this what you had in mind Yvonne?
I see what you guys mean, I shouldn't make the pads to flat, but I must build them up into a round crown. More like a wild olive?
Khaimraj, did you remove the first branch bottom left? I will look at your Defoliation discussion, I missed it.
Thanks for telling me that the tree has potential, that the motivation I need.
Love and Light
Is this what you had in mind Yvonne?
I see what you guys mean, I shouldn't make the pads to flat, but I must build them up into a round crown. More like a wild olive?
Khaimraj, did you remove the first branch bottom left? I will look at your Defoliation discussion, I missed it.
Thanks for telling me that the tree has potential, that the motivation I need.
Love and Light
Andre Beaurain- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:04 am
Hi Andre
Yes, this is what I had in mind...Khaimrajs tree look like it has leafs, and not needles...no flat pads.
Khaimrajs owerall treeshapes is worth a study...also look on Walter Palls trees, notise how the branches of the trees he build up, leave the trunk, also look at the thickness of them. And look at Will Baddleys work on twigs.
Combine theese images, and give them your own flavour, just a little hint
Kind regards Yvonne
Yes, this is what I had in mind...Khaimrajs tree look like it has leafs, and not needles...no flat pads
.Khaimrajs owerall treeshapes is worth a study...also look on Walter Palls trees, notise how the branches of the trees he build up, leave the trunk, also look at the thickness of them. And look at Will Baddleys work on twigs.
Combine theese images, and give them your own flavour, just a little hint
Kind regards Yvonne
Guest- Guest
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
tap pi lu Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:46 am
Andre Beaurain wrote:Thanks Yvonne, really appreciate it!
Two against one....Ok I will fall for that.
So Tap pi Lu was right, my apologies to you my friend, for doubting you .
The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys. And I really want it to ' become beautiful' like somebody once said.
So is the length of the branches right? I willl do the necessary adjustments.
Eugenia paniculata comes from Australia, does anybody have a picture of how it looks in Nature. Ausssies??
Here in SA, as I suspect the rest of the world, we grow it as a hedge, you dont get anyting faster!!
Love and light
Hi Andre. all of us sign Clup is to learn and help, it is fun
tap pi lu- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:48 am
tap pi lu wrote:Andre Beaurain wrote:Thanks Yvonne, really appreciate it!
Two against one....Ok I will fall for that.
So Tap pi Lu was right, my apologies to you my friend, for doubting you .
The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys. And I really want it to ' become beautiful' like somebody once said.
So is the length of the branches right? I willl do the necessary adjustments.
Eugenia paniculata comes from Australia, does anybody have a picture of how it looks in Nature. Ausssies??
Here in SA, as I suspect the rest of the world, we grow it as a hedge, you dont get anyting faster!!
Love and light
Hi Andre. all of us sign Clup is to learn and help, it is fun
Hi Tap Pi Lu
Is this your problem?.....
The sentens "The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys" does not mean Khaimraj and I gave theese advises.....read...people on IBC.
Kind regards Yvonne....normaly would I never give advise on a specie I dont know, but Andre PM me.
Guest- Guest
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
Khaimraj Seepersad Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:45 pm
Thanks Yvonne. smile.
Andre,
try copying your image and then taking a soft pencil [ say 3b to 6b ], draw around the trunk and branches, imagine the tree getting fatter. See after some thickening if you come close to bar branches and branches meeting each other, perhaps like an octopus.
You might not be a draughtsman, but you can use a camera and take pictures of trees. print and try drawing the main branches [ say 6 to 8 ] and how the canopy works. Get good tracing paper.
Work at say 20 x 25 cm.
Why not come back and show at Bonsai Questions or the Lounge.
Remember to walk around the tree and develop a sense of how 3d. a tree can be.
Now try the idea on your other tree shown on this forum.
Will be around.
Later.
Khaimraj
Andre,
try copying your image and then taking a soft pencil [ say 3b to 6b ], draw around the trunk and branches, imagine the tree getting fatter. See after some thickening if you come close to bar branches and branches meeting each other, perhaps like an octopus.
You might not be a draughtsman, but you can use a camera and take pictures of trees. print and try drawing the main branches [ say 6 to 8 ] and how the canopy works. Get good tracing paper.
Work at say 20 x 25 cm.
Why not come back and show at Bonsai Questions or the Lounge.
Remember to walk around the tree and develop a sense of how 3d. a tree can be.
Now try the idea on your other tree shown on this forum.
Will be around.
Later.
Khaimraj
Khaimraj Seepersad- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
tap pi lu Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:55 am
Yvonne Graubaek wrote:tap pi lu wrote:Andre Beaurain wrote:Thanks Yvonne, really appreciate it!
Two against one....Ok I will fall for that.
So Tap pi Lu was right, my apologies to you my friend, for doubting you .
The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys. And I really want it to ' become beautiful' like somebody once said.
So is the length of the branches right? I willl do the necessary adjustments.
Eugenia paniculata comes from Australia, does anybody have a picture of how it looks in Nature. Ausssies??
Here in SA, as I suspect the rest of the world, we grow it as a hedge, you dont get anyting faster!!
Love and light
Hi Andre. all of us sign Clup is to learn and help, it is fun
Hi Tap Pi Lu
Is this your problem?.....
The sentens "The Eugenia only looks this way, because I was listening to you guys" does not mean Khaimraj and I gave theese advises.....read...people on IBC.
Kind regards Yvonne....normaly would I never give advise on a specie I dont know, but Andre PM me.
Hi Yvone, greet all my friends, I do not intend to upset you. incorrect translation can make you misunderstand. very happy to have a discussion with you.
tap pi lu- Member
Re: Virgin Brush cherry
roberthu526 Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:28 pm
I would remove the 2nd lowest on the left. Personal opinion though.
coh wrote:I agree with Todd. How long have you been working with this tree?
I'll try to spend some time with this later but some first impressions - I like the view of the tree in photo 1 the best, and think removing that lowest branch on the left would dramatically improve the appearance - maybe something like this:
Then maybe you'd have to re-grow a lower apex. Note I've also removed that long "aerial" root on the right side that is somewhat distracting.
I actually think the base looks more interesting from the reverse view, but the canopy is more difficult to assess - think you'd want to remove most of the foliage that obscures the trunk.
Any chance you could post new photos with a simple background? It's tough to do virts with all the distractions back there.
roberthu526- Member
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