Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

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Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:51 pm

My pear started leafing out full time last week, so I repotted. This weekend we have a severe cold snap, so it is inside. It's that uncertain time of year again. You have to keep your eyes on the weather and your trees.


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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Tom Simonyi on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:04 pm

Jim....I always enjoy seeing this tree....lovely composition. Thanks for sharing.
Tom

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Bugeye on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:06 pm

Jim,
Very nice tree. Great natural style.

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  RKatzin on Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:37 pm

Beautiful tree Jim, very strong in structure yet graceful in movement, well done! Around here, pears and plums are almost always the first to pop a leaf at the first warm spell, which is generally mid-Feb. Pussy willows will pop about the same time. I hate to see those little leaves get froze off, makes an ugly tree until the new spring leaves come out, but it never seems to slow the trees down. Very stange La Nina weather this season, I've actually had to water trees in the winter! Usually I'm scurrying around with a tub of top off to keep my roots underground. Anyway, I like this tree. I'm inspired. It's the spittin' image of what I see in my mind when I think about deciduous trees. Thank you! I'd love to see it in flower and leaf.
Thanks, Rick

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  marcus watts on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:00 pm

what a really nice tree....

Like you I have an increasing number of trees indoors it seems- the acer kiyohime was repotted 21st Jan and within 10 days we were minus 6 degrees C at night, then a shohin trident maple on rock started unfurling leaves in the cold stap so that came in next to the big one. I had anticipated the kiyohime so a bench was rigged in the garage with a 400w grow light above it on a timer. The light is going to certainly increase the growing season which will be excelent for the trident as it will recieve at least 3 defoliations this year.

Funny thing is I was really pleased to get the cold snap and freeze all the trees left on the benches for a while as the white pines suffer badly if it stays too mild. We live 7 miles inland but friends right on the coast dont get frost very often and they really struggle to keep a white pine happy.

The weather keeps us on our toes though this time of year,

Cheers Marcus

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:04 pm

JimLewis wrote:My pear started leafing out full time last week, so I repotted. This weekend we have a severe cold snap, so it is inside. It's that uncertain time of year again. You have to keep your eyes on the weather and your trees.


Jim, Marcus just noted the same predicament. So you guys are providing them with artificial light? If so, how many hrs/day? My Jap. Quince seedlings are leafing out as well and all 4 are in a 2 3/4" pot. Sounds like I should pot them up now. Too bad it's come so early as I wanted to put two of them in the ground. But were having some cold weather here now too. Thanks for any info Jim!
Chris

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Poink88 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:18 pm

I move most of my tropicals in and out depending on the overnight low temp. but plan to include all leafed deciduous plants if it goes 32*F or lower.

Inside my garage, I use 48" long T8 lights (but T5 is supposed to be better) with 6500K (cool grow) bulbs that cycles for 14 hours a day. I think you can put it on as long as 16 hours (the plants need the 8 hours rest too). The plants seem to love it. The ones I keep in the garage are newly transplanted (newly purchased) tropicals I don't want to risk outside for now. The warmer temp should help root growth as well.


Last edited by Poink88 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  coh on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:30 pm

Jim, please show us a progression of this tree during the upcoming growing season. I'd like to see it as the leaves unfurl, then when fully foliated (is that a word?) Also if it blooms, though I seem to remember you saying that it hadn't bloomed yet.

This "winter" seems to be keeping everyone on their toes. So far I've been able to maintain everything in dormancy, except for a Chinese quince which has expanding green buds...but I've been able to slow that one down by moving it to a colder spot. The cold snap will be hitting here tonight with temps likely to stay in the teens over the weekend...but then back up to the 40s later next week. So a bunch of trees will have to be moved temporarily to more protected spots, then back again. At least it's exercise!

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pot

Post  abcd on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:50 pm

[img][/img]

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  marcus watts on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:56 pm

Fore wrote:Jim, Marcus just noted the same predicament. So you guys are providing them with artificial light? If so, how many hrs/day? My Jap. Quince seedlings are leafing out as well and all 4 are in a 2 3/4" pot. Sounds like I should pot them up now. Too bad it's come so early as I wanted to put two of them in the ground. But were having some cold weather here now too. Thanks for any info Jim!
Chris

Hi Chris,
Yes I'm using a 400w halide grow light in a reflector (a 4500k hydroponics vegetation only bulb). The timer is set to 5 hours in every 24 as the quality of the light intensity is the key, i'm not looking for lots of growth, just to maintain them. 400w Halide lights give useable light for a distance of 3 to 4ft so the lower leaves are getting light they can actually use, banks of T5 or T8 tubes do ok for 18" total distance useable light.
It is important to make sure the trees can use the light though - once the temperature drops to about 2 deg C a tree wont photosynthesise so the light would be just wasted electricity. For this reason I time the light to come on at the warmest part of the day (2pm). The garage temperature is high enough then for the light to be used and the warrmth from the lamp keeps the temp stable for the next 5 hours.

Originally i was setting the timer to the coldest part of the night, thinking it would keep the garage a little warmer but results were zero so i researched the temperatures and realised that background temperatures needed to be +2 C or higher.



Here is the bench area (with a pine i'm wiring in the comfort of the garage). With the acer inside it has been easy to start the hard pruning that is needed to force growth inwards on the neglected bare inner branches. The top is the weak part of these so the low and middle branches have been hit back the hardest.

cheers Marcus

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:48 pm

Thanks so much Marcus (edit Wink ) and Dario! I'm using what I have, 48" T8's. Good to know the usable light distances...very useful to know!
But Dario is doing 14 hrs/dy and Jim said 5 hrs/dy. I too am not looking for growth, which I know req. 14-18hrs/dy. So I think I'll just have them on for 5 hrs to slow growth till the last freeze when I can get them outside. I'm going to repot today Jim too. (good idea bringing trees inside to work on. I tried working on mine in the hoop house yest. when it was in the high 20s/low 30s and I froze my feet and hands off. I just didn't know you can bring a dormant, with frozen roots, inside to work on. Thats FANTASTIC news to me Jim! Very Happy

I just want to Thank the forum for all the help. I'm new to 'winter' so to speak, as I've spent the last 30 yrs of my life in the south or in Ca. So I only have to learn how to handle premature budding one time...so I hope LOL

Chris


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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Poink88 on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:54 pm

Chris,

I think the biggest difference is I am using it on evergreen tropical plants. I forgot the distance...yes, I keep mine as close as 2" away from the bulb. Note that Marcus is using 400W MH...my T8 bulb is only 32W x 4.

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  marcus watts on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:56 pm

Fore wrote:Thanks so much Jim and Dario! I'm using what I have, 48" T8's. Good to know the usable light distances...very useful to know!
But Dario is doing 14 hrs/dy and Jim said 5 hrs/dy. I too am not looking for growth, which I know req. 14-18hrs/dy. So I think I'll just have them on for 5 hrs to slow growth till the last freeze when I can get them outside. I'm going to repot today Jim too. (good idea bringing trees inside to work on. I tried working on mine in the hoop house yest. when it was in the high 20s/low 30s and I froze my feet and hands off. I just didn't know you can bring a dormant, with frozen roots, inside to work on. Thats FANTASTIC news to me Jim! Very Happy

I just want to Thank the forum for all the help. I'm new to 'winter' so to speak, as I've spent the last 30 yrs of my life in the south or in Ca. So I only have to learn how to handle premature budding one time...so I hope LOL

Chris

Hi Chris - its me, Marcus (not Jim) using the 5 hours but it is because of the lumen output of a 400w halide - this would be far in excess of the T8 tubes. I'll look it up for you in a minute but you will need at least 12 hours, and the distances i gave are how far the light goes not the distance to have them from the plants - you will need the tubes a few cm above the trees (use a small fan if the tops get too warm)

cheers Marcus

EDIT

light output - my lamp - philips Master HPI Plus 400w - 4500K, 32,500 lumens - efficiency will be 73% after 8000hrs, 60% after 20000hrs.

A typical 48" T8 is a 32w - 36w bulb - 6500k 'sunlight', 2900-3500 lumens depending on brand so roughly 10 tubes = one halide

Indoor plant lighting is a complete science really, and lumens are not everything but they are the measurable starting point to see how much 'grow light' you are getting. What is important is getting the balance so I can use one 400w halide for 5 hours and get photosynthesis for a distance of 4ft with no fan needed. I could use 4 to 6 x 48" tubes within inches of the trees (with a fan) and get about 18"-20" of photosynthesis in a 12 to 14 hour day. Tree size and what you have laying about plays a part. (T5's & T8's are finished in 6 months of 12hr days too, the light is no longer useable by the plant so is wasting electricity)


Last edited by marcus watts on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:20 pm

Thanks for the kind words, everyone.

No extra lights for this one. I have a basement sun room and it is sitting in there next to my 2 Ficus that have been sulking in there all winter. Now if the sun would just shine! Still quite bright in there though -- especially for the brief time I hope to have this (and others) inside.

It has not bloomed in the 16 years I've had it in a bonsai pot. I kinda suspect, because of its size, it is because I have to prune this so often. But I keep hoping.

Sorry, abcd, I don't care for it in a wider pot. But thanks for the suggestion.

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:17 pm

marcus watts wrote:
Fore wrote:Thanks so much Jim and Dario! I'm using what I have, 48" T8's. Good to know the usable light distances...very useful to know!
But Dario is doing 14 hrs/dy and Jim said 5 hrs/dy. I too am not looking for growth, which I know req. 14-18hrs/dy. So I think I'll just have them on for 5 hrs to slow growth till the last freeze when I can get them outside. I'm going to repot today Jim too. (good idea bringing trees inside to work on. I tried working on mine in the hoop house yest. when it was in the high 20s/low 30s and I froze my feet and hands off. I just didn't know you can bring a dormant, with frozen roots, inside to work on. Thats FANTASTIC news to me Jim! Very Happy

I just want to Thank the forum for all the help. I'm new to 'winter' so to speak, as I've spent the last 30 yrs of my life in the south or in Ca. So I only have to learn how to handle premature budding one time...so I hope LOL

Chris


Hi Chris - its me, Marcus (not Jim) using the 5 hours but it is because of the lumen output of a 400w halide - this would be far in excess of the T8 tubes. I'll look it up for you in a minute but you will need at least 12 hours, and the distances i gave are how far the light goes not the distance to have them from the plants - you will need the tubes a few cm above the trees (use a small fan if the tops get too warm)

cheers Marcus

EDIT

light output - my lamp - philips Master HPI Plus 400w - 4500K, 32,500 lumens - efficiency will be 73% after 8000hrs, 60% after 20000hrs.

A typical 48" T8 is a 32w - 36w bulb - 6500k 'sunlight', 2900-3500 lumens depending on brand so roughly 10 tubes = one halide

Indoor plant lighting is a complete science really, and lumens are not everything but they are the measurable starting point to see how much 'grow light' you are getting. What is important is getting the balance so I can use one 400w halide for 5 hours and get photosynthesis for a distance of 4ft with no fan needed. I could use 4 to 6 x 48" tubes within inches of the trees (with a fan) and get about 18"-20" of photosynthesis in a 12 to 14 hour day. Tree size and what you have laying about plays a part. (T5's & T8's are finished in 6 months of 12hr days too, the light is no longer useable by the plant so is wasting electricity)


Boy, sorry Marcus for the name confusion! Doh! ( I edited in your correct name). Some days I don't know where my head goes Embarassed

Now I see why the big difference. Thanks Marcus for taking the time to educate me about indoor lighting!! I didn't know lumen output was assoc. with how much time a plant needs. But it makes total sense. So I'll go with 14 hrs then.
Again,Thanks!

And Jim, I too like the size of your current pot, matches quite nicely.
Chris

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Here is a VERY young clump style flowering quince that is well-on its way to full leaf. It too came inside. Dunno what color flowers for sure, but I THINK they'll be red.


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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  John Quinn on Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:59 am

I have a small trunk over rock Trident maple that has started leafing out. Temps of 22 forecast tomorrow night. At least there's room in the heated greenhouse!

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  dick benbow on Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:37 pm

same situation expected here. many are starting to repot to get ahead of the numbers, but i expect a cold snap between now and end of next month. What i did was to build a heat box that is 3 feet wide and 12 feet long and houses a 30 foot heating coil. The room it's situated in, is off the garage keeps it at 40 F and with the heat 50 f, so the trees transition nicely.

glad to see you taking care of the quince Smile

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:29 pm

Just 2 weeks later:


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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:31 pm

And . . .


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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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pear leafing out cold snap comming

Post  moyogijohn on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:48 pm

JIM,, The little quince looks really good,,,i think i,ll look around for one this year.. is the pear tree a regular one or a dwarf type ?? the leaves look really small for a pear tree...both are looking good.. take care john

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  JimLewis on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:00 pm

Thanks. The quince nees to be more centered in the pot, but . . .

The pear is P. pyrafolia, Chinese sand pear. The leaves here are still only half out.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Kind of an update on the pear

Post  JimLewis on Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:19 pm

It was getting a bit messy. I thinned the tree, cut some of the branches back, and flattened the top a bit.

It will be turning color in a few weeks, then going leafless. With a bit of luck, I'll get some more inyterior leafing in the spring.


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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Bob Pressler on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:40 pm

I like this tree- if you ever feel the need to let it go............Smile

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:50 pm

JimLewis wrote:It was getting a bit messy. I thinned the tree, cut some of the branches back, and flattened the top a bit.

Jim,

it's the first time i see this tree.

i'm...

i think i'm...

in love :-)

in my eyes, it's a small 'walter pall' tree... not that it cant be a 'jim' tree, but you should take that as a huge compliment

thats a little topclass tree to me

yves

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Re: Pear leafing out - cold snap coming

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