New hobiest

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New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:58 am

Hi, i just ordered myself some Paper birch Seeds, and weeping dwarf bottle brush seeds, i plan on using them as my first try at bonsai, can anyone give me some information on what i will need to make a success of my project, regarding these two types of trees. any help or advice will be appreciated.


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Re: New hobiest

Post  JimLewis on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:52 pm

Hi and welcome to the IBC and to bonsai.

I'll begin by saying that seeds are not the most satisfying way to start out in bonsai. It will be years before you can have anything that even remotely resembles a bonsai.

That said, many of us plant the occasional seed and nurture the plant to bonsaihood.

But . . . while you are waiting I suggest you head to a nearby nursery and buy a couple of suitable plants so you can practice your techniques on them while you wait for he seedlings to catch up.

Before that, however, go to the library or a bookstore and check out or buy a couple of books on bonsai. Read and look at the pictures. Discover the techniques you will have to learn to bring a plant up to bonsai status. Mybe some of our South African friends here can ptch in an offer some suggestions.

_________________
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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:06 pm

Thanks for the advice, i will be sure to visit a nursery and get myself a young tree, any advice on what type?

I bought the seed because i am getting married in Nov 2011 and would like to plant the seed and watch it grow as the years progress, as a symbol of a growing relationship.

Any advice on what to do as soon as i get a new tree?
i would like to get something young to call my own...

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Randy_Davis on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:17 pm

GeraldHeystek wrote:Thanks for the advice, i will be sure to visit a nursery and get myself a young tree, any advice on what type?

I bought the seed because i am getting married in Nov 2011 and would like to plant the seed and watch it grow as the years progress, as a symbol of a growing relationship.

Any advice on what to do as soon as i get a new tree?
i would like to get something young to call my own...

Gerald,
The best advise will come from bonsai enthusiasts in your local club. Here is the contact for a club in Johannesburg you can try. There are lot's of natives in South Africa that I'm sure would be suitable for bonsai aand those club members can probably rattle off a list to you with ease.


Eastern Bonsai Society
Highlands North, Johannesburg
Errol Rubin
083 419 3109
meetings - 2nd Saturday

R

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:32 pm

SO what is the perfect age to start training a tree to be a bonsai?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:30 pm

GeraldHeystek wrote:SO what is the perfect age to start training a tree to be a bonsai?

Your age, or the age of the tree??? Shocked

It really isn't relevant. The point is that it's going to be a long time before seeds give you anything to work with - unless you know how to train bonsai from seedlings. My guess is that you don't, but plant them anyway for later. In the meantime follow the others' advice and learn everything you can. And don't be discouraged when you kill something - lots of them - because we all have. It's not a failure if you learn from it.

Welcome!

Russell

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New Hobbyist

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:35 pm

Which species of paper birch do you have? The American one, Betula papyrifera, is short lived & not considered suitable for bpnsai.
Iris

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:46 pm

bonsaisr wrote:Which species of paper birch do you have? The American one, Betula papyrifera, is short lived & not considered suitable for bpnsai.
Iris

Yes thats the one, on the research i did it said that this specific type of birch will live to 70 tears if looked after well, i wanted something inexpensive to start with, that so if i killed it, it would put me in the red forever. why do you say it is not suitable for bonsai?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:50 pm

Russell Coker wrote:
GeraldHeystek wrote:SO what is the perfect age to start training a tree to be a bonsai?

Your age, or the age of the tree??? Shocked

It really isn't relevant. The point is that it's going to be a long time before seeds give you anything to work with - unless you know how to train bonsai from seedlings. My guess is that you don't, but plant them anyway for later. In the meantime follow the others' advice and learn everything you can. And don't be discouraged when you kill something - lots of them - because we all have. It's not a failure if you learn from it.

Welcome!

Russell

I meant the age of the tree, i asked this question to know what age the tree should be if i considered buying one. i got a few e-books and a hard copy, i intend to read them all to gather as much theoretical knowledge before attempting anything for real. do you have any specific books in mind?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:30 pm

GeraldHeystek wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:
GeraldHeystek wrote:SO what is the perfect age to start training a tree to be a bonsai?

Your age, or the age of the tree??? Shocked

It really isn't relevant. The point is that it's going to be a long time before seeds give you anything to work with - unless you know how to train bonsai from seedlings. My guess is that you don't, but plant them anyway for later. In the meantime follow the others' advice and learn everything you can. And don't be discouraged when you kill something - lots of them - because we all have. It's not a failure if you learn from it.

Welcome!

Russell

I meant the age of the tree, i asked this question to know what age the tree should be if i considered buying one. i got a few e-books and a hard copy, i intend to read them all to gather as much theoretical knowledge before attempting anything for real. do you have any specific books in mind?


Yes, Gerald, I understand what you were asking. Did you read the rest of that post?

Books? Here's 4 pages of opinions http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5597-bonsai-books

Russell Coker
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Re: New hobiest

Post  JimLewis on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:50 am

Careful of those bonsai e-books. I've seen a few that weren't worth the "paper" they were printed on.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:37 am

Russell Coker wrote:
GeraldHeystek wrote:
Russell Coker wrote:
GeraldHeystek wrote:SO what is the perfect age to start training a tree to be a bonsai?

Your age, or the age of the tree??? Shocked

It really isn't relevant. The point is that it's going to be a long time before seeds give you anything to work with - unless you know how to train bonsai from seedlings. My guess is that you don't, but plant them anyway for later. In the meantime follow the others' advice and learn everything you can. And don't be discouraged when you kill something - lots of them - because we all have. It's not a failure if you learn from it.

Welcome!

Russell





I meant the age of the tree, i asked this question to know what age the tree should be if i considered buying one. i got a few e-books and a hard copy, i intend to read them all to gather as much theoretical knowledge before attempting anything for real. do you have any specific books in mind?


Yes, Gerald, I understand what you were asking. Did you read the rest of that post?

Books? Here's 4 pages of opinions http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t5597-bonsai-books



Yea i did read the full reply, thanks for your advise will use all the info i receive to make a informed decision.
I am really exited about this project, and i know it will take me years to have something to be really proud of, but to me its not about what is right, and what am supposed to do, but rather to enjoy life's simple pleasures. What else is there than mother earth that has and always will be.

I believe that we were created to look after earth and enjoy her wonders.

But until i am able to grow my own tree from a seed, and nurturing and caring for it till the day i am not here anymore, i will be practicing , and i will try not to kill any trees.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:01 pm

[quote="GeraldHeystek]But until i am able to grow my own tree from a seed, and nurturing and caring for it till the day i am not here anymore, i will be practicing , and i will try not to kill any trees.[/quote]

Hey Gerald.

Trust me, we all try to not kill the trees we're working on but sometimes it happens. A big part of bonsai is horticulture, by that I mean understanding the needs/likes/dislikes of the different species of plant material we work with. For people new at this like yourself it is a lesson in trial and error. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. The trick is not to beat yourself up too badly when you don't.

The best thing you could do for yourself now would be to join a club. Books can teach you theory, but the people who live in your area and work with what material is available to you are the best resource you'll ever have - and they WANT to share!

R

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:29 am

If there is one thing u should say is the most important thing to know about bonsai , what would it be?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:43 am

Gerald,

I see you're 24, from seed [ use ground growing] it would take between 5 to 10 years to get good results. What you need to do is get the correct seed.
In the tropics, it takes 10 years for a tree to begin to show signs of age. A cooler climate may take longer.

Years [85 or so] ago I was given half a kilo of the African Olive and half a kilo of Celtis africana, by two students of your Botanical gardens. I gave the seed to a reliable nursery when I got home. I was studying in Florence, Italy at that time. I have one of the olives and one of the Celtis a.[ African Hackberry] today. The rest of the seed was sold and spread all over the island, I don't know the fates of those trees.

I am content with both of my trees. So just get the seed of trees of that will make bonsai on your side. Ask at a local club.

With seed in the beginning you are looking for trunk size and good root placement, after that follows your branch placements.

You need to know just how large you want your bonsai from before planting those seeds. Working wih seed requires getting accustomed to planning for the future. So visit some folk and lift their bonsai.
You will appreciate the lifting part with age, even if you are say 6' 4'' and built like Hercules [ Herakles] or Samsom or other.

As a rule of thumb or if you prefer a guidline - 2.5 cm to 12.8 cm [ diameter of trunk to height of tree ] will give a stout masculine tree and 2.5 cm to 15.2 cm will give a slender more feminine tree.

I grew many of my efforts from seed, so it's entirely possible and just remember to treat the tree with respect, it is a living thing, not a piece of plastercene.

Lastly, you need to remember that wood has to age to 50 years to become durable [ if that tree type has durable with age wood ] so if you get into the Shimpaku [ Juniper] look, you will probably have to use a collected tree. If you collect do so with commonsense and remember to refill the holes and get permission to collect first.
Best of luck.
Khaimraj

* Unfortunately, you will most probably end up killing a few along the way. Either bury the tree, compost it or ask a potter to use the ashes to make a glaze for a bonsai pot or other.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:54 am

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Either bury the tree, compost it or ask a potter to use the ashes to make a glaze for a bonsai pot or other.


Seriously????????? We're not talking about grandmother here. Chalk it up to experience and MOVE ON!

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:00 am

Russell,

compost it means, throw it on the discard pile and let it rot. Ash it, I am practical, ash makes for good glazes. Bury it, may be someones sign of respect for a tree.

All three mean move on.
Still confused ?
Khaimraj Laughing


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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:30 am

the point of growing Bonsai isn't for me to socialize with people, i do not have any plans to join a club, and don't have any need to socialize with anybody in person regarding Bonsai growing, i have a number other activities that satisfy my need. i wanted to see if any person in here see this as a bond between nature and man, and not only as a hobby, i want to plant the trees to do my part for the earth just as much as i want to use it for my own satisfaction. i don't always have time to attend meetings at set times, and thus i do not want to join a club. I want this to be a cleansing experience for my soul. Hope this helps to put my questions into perspective, and to understand what i am asking, i don't want to speak to people from a club, i live in my country and i have eyes, i know what trees are beautifull to me, and wich one i would want to use.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Tony on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:30 am

Hi Gerald, your reasons for planting the seeds are truly beautiful and a testament to the bond between you and your partner. Plant many seeds, some will thrive and some will fail, but the journey will be worthwhile. Creating Bonsai is a why we are all log onto this forum... some of the guys (and Girls) are VERY dedicated to the art to the point of it being all consuming, their enthusiasm for you to 'get involved' is well intended. One of the great things about bonsai is that they are portable, and as you grow older together so will your trees and they can travel with you.

_________________
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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:52 am

thanks for the positive reply, it feels to me as if you get what bonsai is to me, i had a little acorn tree when i was about 13 years old, i had it for 1 and a half years, and then my brothers dog got hold of t somehow. it was very dear to me and i kind of lost interest in the whole thing.
but it got hold of me again after i by accident saw a picture of a black pine bonsai on the internet, and i have the time and resources to do this hobby. Thanks for the encouragement. I got my seeds today, but the seller said it has to be climatised or something in the freezer, i got canoe/paper birch seeds and dwarf weeping bottle brush seeds. When should i plant these seeds, i am not so shure, but i dont think planting them now would be a good idea as my region is starting to go into fall.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Tony on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:28 am

Hi Gerald... there are better folk than I who know the species you are trying... and also your local climate etc. I am sure that in the next 24 hours (a single spin of the earth) you will have the info you need.


_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

Visit Tony's Bonsai website

If you Tweet?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:34 am

Thanks a MILION, AND GREAT WEBSITE.

Regards.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:05 pm

GeraldHeystek wrote:the point of growing Bonsai isn't for me to socialize with people, i do not have any plans to join a club, and don't have any need to socialize with anybody in person regarding Bonsai growing, i have a number other activities that satisfy my need.

The recommendation that you acquaint yourself with your local club has more to do with learning from people in your area rather than what you're bringing to the Christmas party. Your "need" appears to be practical knowledge, and that's where they can help you. Of course, you can always ask here and get an answer from someone in New York or England, hopefully they'll have enough knowledge of your South African climate to guide you successfully. Bonsai is different things to different people, I wish you luck with whatever it is to you.

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Re: New hobiest

Post  GeraldHeystek on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:26 pm

okay so i took the advice i got in this forum and went to the local nursery, and bought a little tree if i post a picture of the leaves will someone be able to assist me in identifying it?

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Re: New hobiest

Post  Russell Coker on Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:30 pm

I'm always up for that, I'll give it a try.

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Re: New hobiest

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