Shohin display

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Shohin display

Post  Hans Vleugels on Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:42 pm

Hi guys,

This weekend we had a photo session in our bonsai club Eda Uchi Kai. Members were allowed to bring some trees for a professional photo shoot by Jan Dieryck. After he finished setting up his studio, I created this shohin setup for a picture. While he was taking pictures, I quickly made some pictures myself. Of course this picture isn’t the professional picture Jan made. It isn’t as sharp as I would like, but I am also not a professional photographer. I am sure the picture Jan made will be a lot better. But anyway, trees in this shohin display are a Juniperus chinensis, an Acer buergerianum, and a Zelkova serrata.



I think these trees are getting ready for display purposes. I do realize the world of creating shohin displays is very complex, and I still have very much to learn about this. But it would be nice to hear some of your comments or remarks about this display. Do you like it as it is? What would you change, and why? Etc…

Regards from Belgium,

Hans

Hans Vleugels
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  mike page on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:11 pm

SUPER!! Very Happy

mike page
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  kingbean on Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:51 pm

Love the juniper but would look better if placed to
The left more just off centre.

kingbean
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Hans Vleugels on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:00 pm

kingbean wrote:Love the juniper but would look better if placed to
The left more just off centre.
Something like this?


Hans Vleugels
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:06 pm

Hi Hans

Good choice of trees, and simplicity and peace is achieved.
The season, that is the main theme of the shohin display is clear, and there are good trees chosen that harmonize well with each other in size and visual volume.

You must consider the balance of the display though. It is of importance that the main trees and the assistant tree point towards each other, and towards the centre of the display to get the right balance.
I have changed it in a graphic I hope is understandable. (I took the liberty of flipping the owl too).

Best regards
Morten




Another example...



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:14 pm

kingbean wrote:Love the juniper but would look better if placed to
The left more just off centre.

The bonsai is always placed in centre of the table, and not to the left or right to achieve balance. The tree must be in balance itself, and need not to be placed of centre to do this. Of course it is the choice of the artist to neglect this, but stability and peace is more often achieved with the trees centred.

( And that Juniper is great :-) )

Regards
Morten


Last edited by morten albek on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Hans Vleugels on Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:16 pm

Hi Morten,

Thanks for your comment! I think your suggestion is a very good one. Makes the composition less static. I certainly will try this out. If I succeed in making a decent picture of it, I will post it here. Seeing your picture also makes me realize the stand below the Zelkova isn't a good choice. Will look for another one...

Damn, I wish I could play around with this set-up like you did. Maybe this is not the place, but could you explain to me how you removed the background on your virtual, and made those changes? (PM is okay)

Regards,
Hans

Hans Vleugels
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  John Quinn on Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:00 am

As I looked at the first image, I had the same thoughts that Morten had, though he explained it much better than I could have!

_________________
"Eschew obfuscation"

John Quinn
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  shimsuki on Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:31 am

I like Morten's idea, and I like your trees!!!


Andrew

shimsuki
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:00 pm

Lovely shohin Hans, and great jigging from Morton.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Bugeye on Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:17 pm

Nice display Hans. Is the owl a Henk Fresen?

Bugeye
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Hans Vleugels on Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:05 pm

Bugeye wrote:Nice display Hans. Is the owl a Henk Fresen?
No, it is a barn owl by Butler & Peach....


Hans Vleugels
Member


Back to top Go down

Shohin Display

Post  Bob Bailey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:46 pm

I
like Morton,s virtual of your display and my only criticism is that the pots are too similar in colour and I would have the owl facing the main tree.
Where I would disagree with Morton is when he says you must have the tree in the centre to achieve balance in your display. When you pot a tree with lets say a left/right bias unless it was a round pot you would pot just left of centre and vice/versa with a right/left bias,you do this to achieve a more harmonious image. Why then disregard this concept when setting out your trees for display. I think, and it is only my opinion that the negative space created by this method is more balanced and harmonious than by religiously putting your trees in the centre of each part of the stand.
I must sress once again this is only my opinion as I know each artist has their own opinion on how to display their trees,but to diplay Shohin and Mame is so difficult to get right I think you should gather as much information and advice as you can and then form your own opinion.

Bob Bailey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:47 pm

Hi Bob

I newer suggest that any advice or guideline regarding displaying bonsai should be taking rigidly. Just want to point that out. If the artist wants to place a tree off centre at the rack, its the artist choice. As a basic guideline, placing trees at centre most often is the most harmonic and simple solution, but of course other one can act othervise. It is nescessary to have a good eye for balance though and knowledge of how this affects the overall composition and style.

Best regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Shohin Display

Post  Bob Bailey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:12 pm

Hi Morten
I wasn,t citicising you in my last post,far from it I have learnt a lot from your site and articles you have written.the point I was trying to get across was that people should absorb as much information as they can from as many different points of view as they can and then adapt a display style they are happy with.
My own opinions on display were mainly based on studying with Natsuo Kobayashi for four years before he retuned to Japan in 2009, and although he was the Master and has displayed in all the major Shohin shows in Japan we would sit for hours with trees,stands,accents and pen and paper working out displays. he would listen to my point of view and then tell me where I was going wrong! This experiance as made me lean more to the Japanese way of display and was re-enforced when last year I had a 2 hour lunch with Mr Urshibata and his son Asanuma at his Taishoen nursery.We looked through the British Shohin exhibition book and also The Best Of British book and his general opinion was that although there were some nice trees the displays all looked the same.his main criticism was lack of colour and shape in the pots and also a lack of relationship with the sizes and shapes of the trees in the rack. A very informative day.
You can see the influance of Mr Urshibata with Bob,s winning Shohin display at this years Noelanders,he was studying at Taishoen when I visited last year.
I think in Europe we are only just beginning to grasp the tree/pot /stand combination and its importance in display and untill we accept and learn from the Japanese our displays will lag far behind

Cheers Bob

Bob Bailey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:47 pm

Thanks Bob. Very interesting (and no offence taken in any way for sure). Discussions like this and sharing opinions is very meaningful and educational. Thanks for taking your time to share and discuss. I agree, we still have a long travel ahead learning, understanding and appreciating the Japanese way of displaying. I learn every day (I hope :-) and enjoy all of it all the way.

I have a small study group were we do discuss these matters, and different opinions develop each of us. I learn a lot by these discussion and here at this forum too. I like the spirit of a honest and fair disagreement about bonsai issues, because it develops and changes the view and perspective.

Best regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  fiona on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:01 pm

A civil discussion like this can only further the knowledge of all of us and I do admit to having more than a passing interest with my involvement with the British Shohin Association.

I have obsesrved that we seem to have a trend towards brown rectangular or oval pots over here in the UK. Perhaps this is simply because it's all we have had access to until fairly recently; perhaps there is some sort of snobbery with the association of blue or green glazed pots and the cheap so-caled bonsai we see in the garden centres. A trip over to the pots forum will show us that the times they are a-changing in this respect, and the biggest plus of all is that our pottering colleagues seem only too happy to listen to what is requested. I'm sure a significant number of them also read threads like this to get some ideas. This is a (better than) good by-product of this forum.

In the UK, if bonsai as a whole is a relatively new kid on the block, then Shohin as a sub-category is scarcely out of nappies. I really get excited at how threads like this can push the bar even higher.

Thanks Bob and Morten and also of course Hans for starting this thread that is now proving highly informative and in more than one direction.

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Shohin Display

Post  Bob Bailey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:29 pm

Thanks for your thoughts Fiona,I agree with you that the british potters are getting their acts together now and the likes of Dave and Mark Jones,Stone Monkey and John Pitt are now turning out really good Shohin pots with excellent colours and glazes,they now have to move down to Mame! At present I buy all my pots from Japan where it seems the smaller the pot the more expensive it is. This is another bone of contention with me,the number of trees you see at exhibitions(fabulous trees) that must have cost a lot of money stuck in cheap grotty pots.Don,t these people realise if they put the tree into a decent pot it raises that tree to the next level.
Corection in my first post I said Asanuma was Mr Urshbata,s son when in fact he is a Bonsai artist woking there
Cheers Bob

Bob Bailey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  fiona on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:51 pm

Bob Bailey wrote: ... the number of trees you see at exhibitions(fabulous trees) that must have cost a lot of money stuck in cheap grotty pots. Don't these people realise if they put the tree into a decent pot it raises that tree to the next level.
This is something I completely agree with, yet interestingly, on another thread there was a suggestion that the pot is not important in contemplation of a tree. Seems to me a Versace suit will always be diminished by Walmart shoes. Very Happy

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Thanks Fiona for your always encouraging support of the topics. Appreciated!
Yes, pots are another interesting aspect of shohin. I also buy most pots from Japan, but think we are moving on in Europe, not least because of the mentioned potters. Does anyone of you know exactly why conifers are always in brown unglazed pots, and deciduous / flowering / fruit bearing specimens always in coloured and glazed pots? I believe some kind of explanation must be there other than tradition. I am just not aware of it. I will make this question in the pot-section later today, before Fiona knocks me to move it there . Laughing
Regards
Morten

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  fiona on Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:56 pm

morten albek wrote: Does anyone of you know exactly why conifers are always in brown unglazed pots, and deciduous / flowering / fruit bearing specimens always in coloured and glazed pots? I believe some kind of explanation must be there other than tradition. I am just not aware of it. I will make this question in the pot-section later today, before Fiona knocks me to move it there . Laughing
Regards
Morten
I think it would be a good addition to both sections, and it would be interesting to get the two perspectives.

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:00 pm

Morten, ehhem Laughing -- Fiona,

I never said use cheap in appearance pots. The idea as I learnt it was the pot should be as a frame is to an oil painting, it's there to often create the appearance of a window, but at the same time, you don't really see it.

Same for a tree's pot.

Are not pines supposed to be austere trees, even the more feminine white pine and red pine ?
I am not sure how other than dull browns would work, but I am sure there is always one to break the guidelines.

The loud red of an ixora or calliandra, or bougainvillea or azalea, can handle a more colourful pot, though I would be tempted to put these trees within their own kind as they would overpower anyone not as loud.[ Which is why my only bougainvillea is a soft gold yellow, that ages to a soft reddish yellow ]

The eye handles loud aggressive colour well as small things - jewels - miniature enamels - mame' or bean size bonsai pots, but with bonsai pots I have seen it written that this might cheapen them to mere ornaments or as we call it --- wall decoration. Instead of someone's years of work.

This is why I prefer to use simple shapes and colours for my larger trees and just a little more colour for the little ones. I used to have a really cool crab on a rope mame' until someone -- borrowed it -- permanently. But it was in dull brown, but I liked it because of that.
I have a weakness for the soft sheen of the Chinese pots with the speckles almost unnoticeable, and the greenish version, commercial exterior mould, but I believe hand finished.

As a hobby potter [ I don't sell, give as gifts or make stuff for myself ] of 32 years, and yes Fiona, I dig and clean my clays from the ground, create my glazes from oxides, and I was taught by a first generation Bernard Leach student, if you need the hoopla stuff Laughing
I tried to read up on the guidelines for Bonsai pottery, most of the written information makes perfect sense.
I used to love seeing the work of Mr.G.Duffet and Mr.D. Aspenell [ spelling ?], really beautiful pots.

Apologies, I spend more time enjoying my trees and very little on making statements or trying to create new styles. Seeing if I can improve branchlet percentages, by increasing health, understanding specific tree properties, lots of whys and only questions.
Hope that helps Fiona.
By the way I wear Rockport walking shoes - sensible shoes - and I have never owned a suit, worn one and probably never will, just sensible clothing. Laughing
Until.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:10 pm

morten albek wrote:Thanks Fiona for your always encouraging support of the topics. Appreciated!
Yes, pots are another interesting aspect of shohin. I also buy most pots from Japan, but think we are moving on in Europe, not least because of the mentioned potters. Does anyone of you know exactly why conifers are always in brown unglazed pots, and deciduous / flowering / fruit bearing specimens always in coloured and glazed pots? I believe some kind of explanation must be there other than tradition. I am just not aware of it. I will make this question in the pot-section later today, before Fiona knocks me to move it there . Laughing
Regards
Morten

Hello Morton. Could it be as simple as pertaining to the main features of particular trees? I would say that a good Pines main feature would be the rugged matt Bark and therefore unglazed browns and greys. Junipers and Yews the same with their redish bark are often in muted red unglazed or burnished pots.
Deciduous, fruiting or flowering trees often have the trunk more obscured by the foliage when in flower or fruit and then the emphasis is on the fruit, flowers or foliage, rather than the trunk. I could be completely wrong about this of course.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  bonsai monkey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:12 pm

What a super, and friendly, thread - just what the doctor ordered.
I to have found the info and pictures that Morten posts on his website & blog a true inspiration along with the first hand appriciation of Bob's and may other BSA members displays. I never thought much about the Conifers in unglazed pots (you could add Yew to this list as well) but will be interested to see if there is a reason for it. Although Pines and Junipers don't flower, some flowering evergreens can sucessfully "live" in coloured containers so maybe we could experiment with this. I'm brave (or is that stupid) enough to give it a try but not just yet as my conifers are still very much in training!!

Shohin display does tend to lend itself to being more artistic even if it seems to be restrained by more "rules". I really love the colourful pots that can be used and do agree that potters in Europe are now begining to experiment more with unusual and colourful glazes which is to be appluaded. Mame pots, as Bob suggests, are difficult (hence more expensive) to source but I'm sure that with the growing interest in Shohin the potters will catch the growers up. I even notice tha Gordon Duffet is stalling out with more and more smaller pots of late.

I am very lucky as I have Andy (Stone Monkey) living so close to me, as well as being a member of the same Bonsai Club, but it is a doulbe edged sword as he is producing some fantasic Shohin pots, in fact too many as make a choice is becoming more and more difficult Wink

Thanks to one and all for all the info on this thread and I'll be a regular visitor!!
Ook, Ook,
Simon

bonsai monkey
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  JimLewis on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:15 pm

why conifers are always in brown unglazed pots, and deciduous /
flowering / fruit bearing specimens always in coloured and glazed pots?
I

David De Groot devotes several pages to this topic in his excellent "Basic Bonsai Design" published by the American Bonsai Society in 1995 and amazingly allowed to go out of print. For those who have the book, go to Chapter 5, "Relating the Container to the Tree," on page 39. Beginning on page 45 he devotes several pages of text and photos to "Color of the Tree - Color of the Container."

I cannot reproduce it all here, but some excerpts follow:

"Color is a complicated issue, because a tree usually has at least two prominent colors -- bark and foliage -- and can have a many as four or five if it also has deadwood, flowers, fruit, or colorful autumn foliage. The artist must decide which aspect of the tree is most important and choose a pot color that best complements it."

He continues by noting that some growers elect to chose a pot that directly reproduces one of those colors. Others choose a color pot that contrasts with the tree's basic colors. He follows this up at some length with details.

He then discusses selecting "complementary" colors:

"Complementary colors are colors of equal intensity that are the negative of each other. Examples are yellow-purple, red-green, and blue-orange. If you think abut it, you will see that each combination contains all the primary colors. Very satisfying. "

In a section offering some suggested color combinations, he points out that unglazed earth tones, "especially neutral brown and gray, can be appropriately used with any bonsai, although they may not be the best choice for a specific tree. Unglazed containers are especially recommended for non-showy foliage trees such as conifers and for use with the relatively sober, stark beauty of trees that bear flowers or fruit without leaves. Dull glazed pots can look good with trees having slightly showier foliage, such as broadleaf evergreens. Shiny glazes should sually be reserved for those trees having strikingly colorful seasonal foliage, or the festive appearance of flowers or fruit with foliage."

He closes the chapter with a very useful suggested list of tree foliage, flower and fruit colors and various contrasting or complementary pot colors, but I've probably infringed on copyright sufficiently already.

This little book is highly recommended for much more than just this chapter. I think it is sinful that ABS has allowed it to go out of print, but since Mr. DeGroot holds the copyright, someone who knows him might urge him to make it available again -- perhaps as an e-book or a publish-on-demand book. You rarely see it as a used book, but if you do, gobble it up!

Some of the earlier Bonsai Today magazines also cover this topic -- a little more conservatively.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Shohin display

Post  Sponsored content Today at 4:07 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum