Shohin display

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:21 pm

Jim,

not to be stupid or other, but I do wonder what part of a tree is complementary to --- import cobalt blue ????????????

Khaimraj


Last edited by Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:04 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Shohin display

Post  JimLewis on Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:25 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Jim,

not to be stupid or other, but I do wonder what part of a tree is complimentary to --- import cobalt blue ????????????

Khaimraj

That may be why no one with any sensibility or taste will display a tree in one of those pots . . . and I'm not at all certain that anyone here suggested that they should do it to prompt that comment.

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:02 pm

Jim,

I asked because the complementary comment on colours usually means that the colour opposite on the colour wheel to another colour, will together form a grey.
As in-- http://hidc.com.au/facts/colour-wheel/

I could not think of any tree that had an orange which could work with import cobalt blue.

I am examing what you wrote before - on complementary colours-David De Groot.
AND how difficult it might be to produce pigment colours in pottery bodies or glazes that could grey the colours on a tree. Just a painter's curiosity and something to work on with regards to trees.
Khaimraj

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Shohin Display

Post  Bob Bailey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:13 pm

Hi again Morten,conifers in unglazed brown pots,I know this is the norm,but at Noelanders there was a German Lady selling Shohin and Mame pots with some very unusual and beautiful glazes(tall blonde lady with glasses if anyone knows her name or website).I bought a glazed maroon Mame pot, the glaze which she called Ox-Blood.I think I showed it to you Will.I have now put one of my Mame Itogawa junipers in it and will be showing it at the Swindon show in my mini-tokonoma with a scale Henk Frenson bird and Paul Goff Scroll(pics to follow after show) I am not sure about it,but will wait to see people,s reaction to it
Cheers Bob

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Re: Shohin display

Post  JimLewis on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:47 pm

Shohin and, especially, mame pots have always been given more leeway, even among the ultra-traditional and have been "allowed" brilliant colors and flashy designs.

I suspect that is because those ultra-traditionalists have always felt that these small trees were frivolous, anyway. Little do they know . . .

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Shohin Display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:54 pm

Bob Bailey wrote:Hi again Morten,conifers in unglazed brown pots,I know this is the norm,but at Noelanders there was a German Lady selling Shohin and Mame pots with some very unusual and beautiful glazes(tall blonde lady with glasses if anyone knows her name or website).I bought a glazed maroon Mame pot, the glaze which she called Ox-Blood.I think I showed it to you Will.I have now put one of my Mame Itogawa junipers in it and will be showing it at the Swindon show in my mini-tokonoma with a scale Henk Frenson bird and Paul Goff Scroll(pics to follow after show) I am not sure about it,but will wait to see people,s reaction to it
Cheers Bob
And a very fine pot it was too.
I think you were talking to the pot makers wife? I think the pot maker was a Frenchman?

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:16 pm

Jim,

I always thought it was because at those smaller sizes, you have to use more imagination when casually looking, as natural limitations of size and quantity of leaf and lack of branchlets take over for a great many of the tree types.

So to distract the eye, use colour.
Until.
Khaimraj

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:27 pm

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:Jim,

I always thought it was because at those smaller sizes, you have to use more imagination when casually looking, as natural limitations of size and quantity of leaf and lack of branchlets take over for a great many of the tree types.

So to distract the eye, use colour.
Until.
Khaimraj

I don't agree with this at all Khaimraj. Good shohin don't need more imagination. Good shohin have as many branches as a larger sized tree and need no distraction.

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Re: Shohin display

Post  bonsai monkey on Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:40 pm

Bob Bailey wrote:Hi again Morten,conifers in unglazed brown pots,I know this is the norm,but at Noelanders there was a German Lady selling Shohin and Mame pots with some very unusual and beautiful glazes(tall blonde lady with glasses if anyone knows her name or website).I bought a glazed maroon Mame pot, the glaze which she called Ox-Blood. Cheers Bob

Hi Bob,
The pot you showed me was made by Rene le Coq and the lady you spoke of is his wife (a lovely & friendly couple) who I brought a lovely semi cascade Shohin pot last year at the Trophy. I hope to make Swindon and see your latest creation,

Regards,
Simon

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:03 pm

I will research more deeply into this matter later on and use some time on my summer trip to Japan studying it further. Before that happens a few reflections on the subject. All views based on the traditional Japanese concept of displaying, not rejecting other ways though.

If we take the classical Japanese use of pots (conifers in unglazed earth toned pots/deciduous/flowering in coloured glazed pots) and see what it can be used for when analysing a few displays, I see some advantages that does not diminish the possibility of making a colourful sprinkling display, nor a more down toned and formal display, nor go other ways - if it works it works.

Conifers are always placed on top of the shohin rack by tradition and because it is wanted to show the strongest tree at that position. Using an earth coloured pot will add peace to that position, and underline the importance of the top tree looking stable, strong and peaceful.
The strongest tree should also bring peace to a display using several trees.

The assistant tree that always expresses the beauty of the season (fruiting/flowering e.g.), has a glazed coloured pot underlining the beauty of the flowers/berries/leaves e.g.). This pot (in a perfect world), is coloured but not overdone. Blue colour underlines red berries/green leaves e.g.

The substituting bonsai within the rack may play more vibrantly with the colours at the fruiting/flowering/deciduous trees. Because the other trees add the calmer feeling they will tone down the effect of the vibrant colours used. These also can be toned down by using another conifer with an earth coloured and unglazed pot.
Depending on how expressive or formal the artist wants her/his display, the trees with fitting pots are mixed.

Advantages of using this way of selecting pots for the trees by traditional choice gives a possibility to control the effect of the display and avoid a Tivoli coloured mess, that neglects the peace and simplicity wanted from the display.
Of course the clever artist will succeed bending and twisting these guidelines set up, but as a basic guideline it will make a more controlled expression possible I think.

Examples beneath.


1)
A formal and traditional display using the pot colours to underline the beauty of the season, still adding peace and simplicity to the display.
The top tree is a traditional conifer with a red-brown unglazed pot. The secondary tree at the right with its green glazed colour keeps colours to the display both down toned and not very expressive.
The other trees fill in and supplements the two leading bonsai in tone and colours. Formal set up but still working well.
Making these displays using more than two bonsai often demands some conifers and earth coloured unglazed pots to tone down the expression.


2)
A much more lively display, avoiding the unglazed earth toned pots/conifers. Possible, therefore fewer trees are shown in order not to overdo the colourful display and keep peace and simplicity. No conifers as normally seen, but a bright feast of the season.
In the typical display with two bonsai and an accent (or other object) often the need of a conifer is not necessary, so more freedom is available without making a colourful mess so to speak.

That´s my thoughts after using another few hours of studying displays and thinking (limited power available, but I tried my best :-)
Many other views possible I believe.

Regards
Morten




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Re: Shohin display

Post  fiona on Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:08 pm

morten albek wrote: ... after ... another few hours of studying displays and thinking (limited power available, but I tried my best :-)
Well it seems to me it worked pretty darned well that 'limited power' of yours. Very Happy Cool Very many thanks again.

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Rudi_G on Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:33 pm

Hans Vleugels wrote:Hi guys,

This weekend we had a photo session in our bonsai club Eda Uchi Kai. Members were allowed to bring some trees for a professional photo shoot by Jan Dieryck. After he finished setting up his studio, I created this shohin setup for a picture. While he was taking pictures, I quickly made some pictures myself. Of course this picture isn’t the professional picture Jan made. It isn’t as sharp as I would like, but I am also not a professional photographer. I am sure the picture Jan made will be a lot better. But anyway, trees in this shohin display are a Juniperus chinensis, an Acer buergerianum, and a Zelkova serrata.



I think these trees are getting ready for display purposes. I do realize the world of creating shohin displays is very complex, and I still have very much to learn about this. But it would be nice to hear some of your comments or remarks about this display. Do you like it as it is? What would you change, and why? Etc…

Regards from Belgium,

Hans

Lovely trees and display.

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Re: Shohin display

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:09 am

Hmmm, the way I heard it was the conifers had the top spot(s) on a display because in nature, they're generally the trees that survive at the highest elevation. Deciduous trees and flowering trees occupied the lower spots, because that is where they were found. Herbs, grasses and perennials took the low level as accents.

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:38 am

JimLewis wrote:Hmmm, the way I heard it was the conifers had the top spot(s) on a display because in nature, they're generally the trees that survive at the highest elevation. Deciduous trees and flowering trees occupied the lower spots, because that is where they were found. Herbs, grasses and perennials took the low level as accents.
Hi Jim

Basically yes, as a guideline. But not necessary. You also see other solutions, but in the classical formal display the conifers are used this way most of the time. They can be replaced by another specimen showing strength and peace though, but the Japanese seems to cling to the same solution regarding the main or top tree most of the time. We can just choose otherwise if it works. In the freer displays with two shohin, one accent and a scroll (Toko-kazari) much more freedom is often seen in how the items are arranged.
Also regarding the use of coloured / glazed pots.

Regards
Morten

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Re: Shohin display

Post  landerloos on Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:45 am

Bob Bailey wrote:Hi again Morten,conifers in unglazed brown pots,I know this is the norm,but at Noelanders there was a German Lady selling Shohin and Mame pots with some very unusual and beautiful glazes(tall blonde lady with glasses if anyone knows her name or website).I bought a glazed maroon Mame pot, the glaze which she called Ox-Blood.I think I showed it to you Will.I have now put one of my Mame Itogawa junipers in it and will be showing it at the Swindon show in my mini-tokonoma with a scale Henk Frenson bird and Paul Goff Scroll(pics to follow after show) I am not sure about it,but will wait to see people,s reaction to it
Cheers Bob

Bob, I think you bought the pot from René Lecocq, his wife is tall and blond with glasses.
By the way Will he is belgian.

Peter

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Re: Shohin display

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:02 am

Bob, I do look forward to see that pot and tree. Hurry Very Happy

Regards
Morten

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Re: Shohin display

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