tanuki...a good learning experience?

It all looks like Juniper deadwood. Do you collect it locally?

I agree that creating Tanuki can help develop your Bonsai skills, I have done it for my own enjoyment and because I had some deadwood that was crying out to be displayed.
Several are attached, they obviously need further development but in that respect they will take as long as any other Bonsai.
I personally prefer the term Phoenix graft
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As promised an update about Tanuki in Japan. Tomohiro Masumi answered that you can exhibit a Tanuki bonsai, but you never
get a prize. It is because it's not considered a natural tree. So very few people exhibit it in Japan.

My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

Regards
Morten

Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

Andrija Zokic wrote:

Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

Using that logic, taking a normal tree, stunting it's growth, cutting, twisting and wiring it into odd configurations and putting it into a pot with the sole purpose of making it look like an ancient tree...

Doesn't that make the entire scope of Bonsai...FAKE? So why get upset if you use one piece of dead tree and make a live tree grow so as to incorporate the dead tree so it looks like one old tree?

To you that TANUKI and do it well, my applause!

To us who BONSAI and don't do it as well as the good TANUKIERS, we'd better get crack'en and improve!

Jay

Jay Gaydosh wrote:

Andrija Zokic wrote:

Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

Using that logic, taking a normal tree, stunting it's growth, cutting, twisting and wiring it into odd configurations and putting it into a pot with the sole purpose of making it look like an ancient tree...

Doesn't that make the entire scope of Bonsai...FAKE?

Maybe fake is too strong word, I meant "illusion".

Nah! Fake, Illusion, it's all the same. I was just being a snot. The fact is as bonsai enthusiasts we take trees and try to mimic what nature would do in extreme situations. The entire concept of Bonsai is one of illusion, AND, if we get proficient enough at it, VERY IMPRESSIVE ILLUSIONS!

Jay

Jay Gaydosh wrote:Nah! Fake, Illusion, it's all the same. I was just being a snot. The fact is as bonsai enthusiasts we take trees and try to mimic what nature would do in extreme situations. The entire concept of Bonsai is one of illusion, AND, if we get proficient enough at it, VERY IMPRESSIVE ILLUSIONS!

Jay

Amen to that statement Jay.

Tanuki, complete grafting or air-layering a tree with thick trunk and a smalle vain, what is the difference? Fake? Ilusion? Or?

Cram, If my attempts at tanuki look anything like yours, I will be happy. I have a piece of drift wood that has been seasoning outside for two years and am looking for Parsonii or Holloywood Juniper to graft to it. I like the looks of your procumbens... hmmm! Where did you find the drift wood. Your last photo with the spirals is awesome!
Todd

IMHO there was an incredible tree displayed at the 5th World Bonsai Convention. I was told it was tanuki, and others were talking about this tree. It is a Shimpaku Juniper, very tall at 45 inches. You can find it on page 57 of the commemorative album. I looked and looked at that tree and was spellbound by the artistry. If you have the book look it up. If you don't have the book, consider getting a copy. There are pictures of great trees, stones and pots.
Todd

One thing I've always wanted to try with Tanuki is to hollow the live tree and then slide it into a bulge in the deadwood, much like a tongue and groove joint. This way, when the tree heals and grows, it will essentially heal around the driftwood, making it appear like a live vein. Granted, the bark would still be young, but if you have a shimpaku or similar species, you can get it down to the smoother bark layer, hiding the youth of the tree. This is all just theory. Has anyone tried such an endeavor?

hello!
wow!...it seems tanuki make the ink glowing here like in france
yes tanuki or phoenix are illusions ...like bonsai trees
this discussion wil be hard to finish ...because it depend of the way to see bonsai of eachothers
finally....it s not really a problem
but my real question was if the tanuki could be a good training way for beginners to learn how positionning the vegetation on a hard trunk line
this...without killing importants yamadoris...

that s why i suppose it could be a good learning exercice

and for me it works...i made some tanuki(with bonsai trees also ..classics or ...not at all) from three years now
and know i am beginnig to be able to make a yamadori without injury

so ...


well...thank you everybody for encouragement about these trees
i live in the backmountains of french riviera...and there is a lot of powerful trees to collect
and also these woods of oxycedrus juniper or phoenicia juniper....
now ...i will begin to form the yamadoris i ve collected during my tanuki's learning years

but if you ve liked these ones ...i will contact my teachers
with insistance...they will post theyre creations and maybe you ll get the same schock than me
when you think these trees cost 10 euros at the start...and a deadwood
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I am going to make a tanuki for the first time this year. I want to screw the tree to the dead wood. Can you tell me what screw i should use, stainless steel or doesn't it matter which?

I saw on a thread before that someone had let the tree grow around the screw,i cannot find the thread now. Any thoughts on this anyone?

I love your tanuki Cram.

nice work

... all directions to beautiful trees are good

I have used brass screws and Gorilla glue to attach whips to dead wood. The brass is inert and so does not react with the tree and the Gorilla glue was recommended by Peter Adams in an article it is a powerful glue but it also swells up so fills any small gaps.

Phil Lanceley wrote:I have used brass screws and Gorilla glue to attach whips to dead wood. The brass is inert and so does not react with the tree and the Gorilla glue was recommended by Peter Adams in an article it is a powerful glue but it also swells up so fills any small gaps.

Thanks Phil.

i use ordinary screws
and nails...brads in fact ..for littles parts or if i start from a little plant (its easier to follow the wood veins)
i cant tell you the answer with the time ...all mines a youngs
very nice trees phil!...full of natural

my last work
i made this one two years ago
i called it "le gue de bruinen"...inspired by the lord of the rings...when gandalf change the river in a wave of wild horses
so....the two first pictures are before work...it have to be cleaned ...make a branches selection ...and change the position
and the next pictures are after work
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Hi everybody,
just to show how beautiful a Tanuki can become in the hands of a great artist. This one is made my Mark Noelanders and was showed at the Noelanders trophy last January. I thought it was one of the best designs there!
And Cram I love your Tanuki and I cant wait until they have matured, to see what your vision was when you started to make them! And yes!!! Tanuki is a great learning experience for all! And why waist a beautiful piece of deadwood, when you can make a inexpensive stunning Bonsai out of it? I have some nice ones, Itoigawa Junipers growing on Taxus deadwood, that I have been working on for some years now and they give me just as much pleasure as working on my other trees!
Well don!



Cheers,
Hans van Meer.

Hans van Meer. wrote:Hi everybody,
just to show how beautiful a Tanuki can become in the hands of a great artist. This one is made my Mark Noelanders and was showed at the Noelanders trophy last January. I thought it was one of the best designs there!
And Cram I love your Tanuki and I cant wait until the have matured to see what your vision was when you started to make them! And yes Tanuki is a great learning experience for all! And why waist a beautiful piece of deadwood, when you can make a inexpensive stunning Bonsai out of it? I have some nice ones, Itoigawa Junipers growing on Taxus deadwood, that I have been working on for some years now and they give me just as much pleasure as working on my other trees!
Well don!



Hans van Meer.

I'm with you Hans. Done well they can make great designs.

waow hans...this one is stunning indeed!
exactly the kind of things i d like to do in the future !...well... i will try
now the only ones i will make will be with the good species of junipers and maybe pines like marc noelander
i will go to the noelander next year....i think it will be a good experience to see more high level trees in real

Some stunning tanuki on this thread, for sure. It takes just as much skill to create a great tanuki, as creating a great bonsai.

And yet, tanuki reminds me of Cubic Zirconium. It looks just like real diamond, can be beautifully cut, and yet, a 10 Karat Cubic Zirconium doesn't fetch the same price as a 10 Karat diamond. In case of the Tanuki, it doesn't have much to do with money, and may be my comparison is not very good, but there is something about these trees that do not appeal to me.

I look at the Noelanders tanuki and admire it endlessly, but when I find out how it was made, the magic is gone. Same with a stunning suiseki that has its bottom cut and hidden under its daiza. Same with an "original" painting that turns out to be a copy.
It's funny how these things work.

But sorry for changing the subject. Your question was about the Tanuki as practice material. To me it comes down to this: if I spend 10 years to work on a Tanuki, why not spend those years, working on the "real" thing? It's the same effort, same skill. There is a Pet Store next to my house, selling driftwood for aquariums. I could buy a great-looking driftwood for $3 dollars, but the thought seems preposterous.

Attila Soos wrote:
But sorry for changing the subject. Your question was about the Tanuki as practice material. To me it comes down to this: if I spend 10 years to work on a Tanuki, why not spend those years, working on the "real" thing? It's the same effort, same skill. There is a Pet Store next to my house, selling driftwood for aquariums. I could buy a great-looking driftwood for $3 dollars, but the thought seems preposterous.

The thing is to get material that looks like the tanuki of Cram you have to spend a small fortune. So for people who can't get their hands on that kind of materal a tanuki is a good substitute.

Smithy wrote:

The thing is to get material that looks like the tanuki of Cram you have to spend a small fortune. So for people who can't get their hands on that kind of materal a tanuki is a good substitute.

Yes, I hear you. If you live in an area where collecting is a problem, tanuki is a very justifiable choice.
May be this is why I cannot appreciate it enough: living here in California, I am blessed with a long list of choices for collected material. We can get very high quality yamadori for bargain prices, compared to Europe. So, there is no need for cheaper alternatives.