tanuki...a good learning experience?

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Todd Ellis on Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:54 pm

Hi Laurent,
What size are these trees?
Merci,
Todd

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  law on Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:48 am

Arround sixty centimeters for the first and the second one.

90 for the third.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  ShohinDude on Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:21 am

law wrote:

Wow! Shocked
I would be very interested to hear more on Japanese opinons on this matter.
Many of the impressive looking junipers available in Japan have been made this way.
The fact that a tree has been produced this way apparently has to be declared in order to avoid being branded as a fraudster.
Also, a lot of Tosho have been sacrificed and used as Tanuki for Shimpaku foliage to get better price as Tosho seems to be somewhat out of fashion.
I also know for a fact that they can be shown in shows, but are considered greatly inferior to natural stock and hence do not usually win any prizes.
Saying this might be considered as blasphemy by some, but in my opinion some techniques used by Kimura are not too distantly related to this practice.
Nor does he seem to be even a bit ashamed or trying to hide what he is doing.
If you almost entirely separate a living vein, carve the trunk and then reposition and reattach the vein...how far are we from this practice?
I personally would not use this technique on pines, but as we are having hardest time with our junipers up here, this would be a great way to have more presentable junipers in our collections.

Edit...just chatted with a Japanese friend of mine.
This matter seems to be a bit of a touchy subject there too...


Last edited by ShohinDude on Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typos and more content)

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Rob C on Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:57 pm

These are all beautiful specimens.. Regardless whether they are Tanuki or not.. As far as opinions. It is known that the Japanese thinking does not regard them as true bonsai and most are not allowed in many shows. However, as long as it is designated that they are tanuki or phoenix grafts. It seems to make it more, for lack of a better term, permissible.

I have always enjoyed looking at them. I have one in my collection. No one can deny their beauty. Especially the ones in this post. The ones in this post are some of the best I have seen.

Rob

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  law on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:51 am

Thank you.

I have stopped to do some five years ago because in France most of people are not reday for that and it's devaluing my real juniper yamadori.

In my spirit it's the same because for me beauty is beauty and it's stay a subjective think.

So, i'm doing a very big one that is going to be the last for me and i will wait that the world wil be ready for that.

And, like it has been said by the past, i agree that the famous "resurection" of kimura is a tanuki even if the folliage is from the origine.

But it is the japaneese way.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:31 am

i learn to do them with law...so no merit for me

in my point of vue
it is only at the start a exercice to get some free learning yamadoris-like
and finaly...i like it like the "real" bonsai...a game with nature

the problem with the tanuki is that it s judged for the technique it was made with
..and not the esthetic result






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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  jeffrey on Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:48 pm

Tanuki, or not very nice.
What kind of tree this.

Groetjes, Jeffrey

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  law on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:05 pm

In the order of presentation.

Squamata
Rigida
and
Procumbens.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Rob C on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:11 pm

This is my shohin Tanuki. It is the only one I have.. I realize that there is much adversity towards them. However, I have mine for my own pleasure. I think they are beautiful creations.

Rob





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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:07 am

Rob C wrote:This is my shohin Tanuki. It is the only one I have.. I realize that there is much adversity towards them. However, I have mine for my own pleasure. I think they are beautiful creations.

Rob





That's cool looking. Would be nice to see some of the live vein.
All the phoenix grafts so far are with juniper scions. I feel that juniper, due to its linear vascular growth habit is not the best for a phoenix graft. I have been trying some tropical species, notably Ficus microcarpa and Premna. The premna look very promising due to fast growth, natural propensity for deadwood, tremendous back budding ability, ability to swell inside the deadwood channel and the weird ability to make short aerial roots near the soil surface to create a decent nebari. I believe buttonwood would also be a good scion material.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:44 pm

another one
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:37 am

Just excellent! Many thanks! Couldn't agree more that tanuki is just another way to make a bonsai without the need to risk alive old tree!Smile

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:26 am

I repotted a couple of my tanukis. The first one uses Premna as the scion on Juniper Procumbens deadwood.
Certainly a lot of fun to develop and to work through the problem of how to realistically attach it to the tree.

Before - letting branches grow long to fatten the scion in the groove.

After reducing the branches and repotting at the new angle in a terra cotta training pot.


BTW, this is the deadwood that I steam bent in an earlier post some time ago.

This is the back. The scion has grown over 6 feet in the groove in the juniper deadwood. Another 20 inches or so to go.


Another one in work. These are Premna scions on Rock Mountain Juniper deadwood. The RMJ was really old stock but had no business in Florida (no mountains nearby for it.) Very Happy There are three scions grafted to the tree. The lower left scion has really fattened up and totally filled its groove. It also has its own deadwood. This scion made a sucker shoot which has been grafted to the deadwood in a different spot. The other two scions have some catching up to do. At least a 10 year project, but about 2 or 3 years into it already. The deadwood is about 26 inches tall. It will have a sort of wind swept feel to it.



The last one is a Premma scion growing on Buttonwood deadwood. The deadwood looks like a bird's head.
Paul Katich, of Jacksonville, Florida, made the cascade pot. 20 inches from top of deadwood to bottom of the pot.


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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Hilton Meyer on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:

Looks like this could become the emblem for Tanuki or as I prefer the term Phoenix. Looks like the head of a phoenix

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:26 pm

Hilton Meyer wrote:

Looks like this could become the emblem for Tanuki or as I prefer the term Phoenix. Looks like the head of a phoenix

True, I can see it. Thanks for the idea.

I was thinking about making this a true cascade and the live material to the left would become future jin. These jins would be grown to match the shape of the current top. I believe that is one way to make a tanuki look more believable - have the scion contribute deadwood to the design. However having the "Phoenix Head" prominent might be better. What do you think? I can always cut the future jin off. The cascade leader still needs several years to fill in the groove.

The size of the leaves are not a problem, BTW. I am leaving them large to make more photosynthesis. As soon as the leavers are cut and/or pinched, the premna leaves reduce as if by magic. bounce

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:10 pm

nice ones rob!
it change of junipers....and your make a real fine work on vein mouvement

but today it is a juniper again for me...as usually Laughing
this is a procumbens very healthy
3 years after making it
....now ..i have to find the same trunk with natural living veins clown
[img][/img]

[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:45 pm

a strange one....
this was one of my first tanukis
it was really ugly at first and time give him a little more beauty
well...it is not wonderfull neither Laughing

[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]
[img][/img]

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:19 pm

after cleaning...
[img][/img]

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  wam59 on Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:39 pm

The French touch cheers

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:11 pm

mouarf
i ve never believed in this "french touch" story
and you know... bonsai is an international art

let s say ...human touch Razz

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  wam59 on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:26 pm

easy to recognize the style of each major bonsaika.
You and your style is recognizable

so I corrected The Cram touch

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:11 pm

arg...no
Razz major bonsaika?...maybe on our little french forum Rolling Eyes
but really not here on ibc....the level is high strong and serious

well ... Sleep what about the tree?... Wink

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  thomasj on Sat Sep 24, 2011 2:20 pm

Even though I didn't start these, I was given the task to style them. There were about four or five of them for me to choose from and I liked these two the best. Not too long after they were sold as far as I know. Very Happy Good work on yours Cram. Wink



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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  manosvince on Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:13 pm

cram wrote:i will graft this one i think with juniperus sargentii

[img][/img]

[img][/img]

Hello, what is the species of this juniper?

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:18 pm

it is the bloody "old gold" tongue
really hard to make a good densification with it
but it is really cheap...that s why i used this spiecies before

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

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