tanuki...a good learning experience?

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tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:14 pm

hello
i will post here all the tanukis i made during the last three years
i found this way to learn to form herd shape trees at low cost(actually 10 euros by tanuki)
i know this kind of work is not seen as real bonsai work..
but finally i now see it as a very interresting work for a bonsaischool
maybe it should loose its bad reputation....not for expose the trees without saying it s some tanuki
but to learn on a "fake tree" before killing old venerable yamadori
well..the pictures...four for the beginning

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cram
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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:33 pm

this one is one of my favorites
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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:18 pm

There was, at least, one tanku in the display at The Morikami Gardens in Deray Beach, Florida. It is some variety of Ficus.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Nik Rozman on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:44 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:There was, at least, one tanku in the display at The Morikami Gardens in Deray Beach, Florida. It is some variety of Ficus.

Ficus?! How can a ficus have deadwood on it? Do you have any photos of it?

Super tanukis btw Dance

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:34 pm

Who says the deadwood has to be the same species. Dead is dead, and without much bark it can be hard to ID the species.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:36 pm

Hope I'm not confused, but I wouldn't guarantee it! drunken

On a tanuki, a growing tree, is attached to a piece of deadwood to make it look like it is part of the same tree. So the Ficus would not have deadwood, it would be one part of a two part display, live tree & dead wood. The more delicate and deceptive the application of the tree to the deadwood, the more dramatic and awesome the display.

Note: I found it odd, until I did a little reading, that tanuki would be a word used to describe a bonsai, since tanuki is Japanese for badger. Only as I researched the word I quickley learned that the tanuki of Japanese legend was also a shapeshifter and prone to tricking villagers. Like the shapeshifting badger, the tanuki attempts to trick the observer into believing that the spindly live tree is part and parcel, the same as the presented jin and shari of the deadwood. As presented in the article I found, although tanuki bonsai are not normally allowed in reputable Japanese Bonsai Shows, tanuki is practiced in Japanese bonsai... for fun! In the Western world, tanuki has taken on a more acceptible form of bonsai. thumbs up

Jay

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Mike Jones on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:41 pm

That was pretty darned interesting Jay.

Oh and the Tanuki are absolutely great.

Mike

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:52 pm

Hello Cram. Good to see you posting here again. Very Happy With all the recent discussion on the ethics of collecting rare and ancient yamadori, I feel tanuki will become more and more common and accepted as an art form and not be seen so much as a cheat. Grafting "better" foliage, airlayering or extreme carving are all accepted methods and are not shunned, so why should tanuki? You have some excellent examples here, well done. I have created one as well but it is in the early stages of development and I'm sure most people here have had a go.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:53 pm

Mike Jones wrote:That was pretty darned interesting Jay.

Oh and the Tanuki are absolutely great.

Mike

I was equally impressed about the pages I found. A few are listed below.
I agree, excellant tanuki!

The WWW is a beautiful thing! Cool

Jay


Tanuki Pages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanuki
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/tanuki.shtml

Making a bonsai tanuki:
http://www.bonsailearningcenter.com/Tips&Advice/tanuki_bonsai.htm
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATLarchTanuki%20page1.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadwood_bonsai_techniques



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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Guest on Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:10 pm

Good Tanukis there - looking promising. Yes to Tanuki! It is just a technique like grafting, pruning i.e.
I will ask one of my Japanese friends about the Tanuki not being accepted in Japan. I heard about it before, but newer asked any Japanese bonsai guys about it - i will return with hopefully an enlightening answer later.

It is a great way to make bonsai without harvesting the mountains.

Regards
Morten

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Nik Rozman on Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:04 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Who says the deadwood has to be the same species. Dead is dead, and without much bark it can be hard to ID the species.

I just wanted to say that in my opinion deadwood just doesn't work with ficus. Doesn't look natural.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Neil Jaeger on Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:05 pm

Pretty cool stuff. I only knew it to be called phoenix grafting. After this posting i found out ALOT more on the subject. Here is a pretty good example of a larch and a piece of driftwood.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATLarchTanuki%20page1.htm

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re tanuki

Post  john5555leonard on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:12 am

i,v got to disagree about deadwood on ficus, i know you dont see deadwood on the tree itself but they grow wild here and i have many growing around my house and what they like to do is grow up another tree and wrap the air roots around the host tree eventually smothering the tree and eventually the host tree dies, giving the appearance of deadwood , the ficus molds itself around the host tree , so i think it would be a good choice for tanuki. thats my excuse for mine anyway. regards john

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re tanuki

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:54 am

I see no reason why you cant use any material on some deadwood. All you need is a species that callouses well. A tree like the fig, will eventually swallow the driftwood I would imagine?

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  cram on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:15 am

same for me....no reasons
some more
the last one was exposed in monaco in july2010

these two are quiet big ...more than one meter

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Guest on Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:25 am

It all looks like Juniper deadwood. Do you collect it locally?

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re. Tanuki

Post  LANCE on Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:39 am

I agree that creating Tanuki can help develop your Bonsai skills, I have done it for my own enjoyment and because I had some deadwood that was crying out to be displayed.
Several are attached, they obviously need further development but in that respect they will take as long as any other Bonsai.
I personally prefer the term Phoenix graft
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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Guest on Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:49 pm

As promised an update about Tanuki in Japan. Tomohiro Masumi answered that you can exhibit a Tanuki bonsai, but you never
get a prize. It is because it's not considered a natural tree. So very few people exhibit it in Japan.

My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

Regards
Morten

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Andrija Zokic on Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:23 pm

Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:33 pm

Andrija Zokic wrote:
Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

Using that logic, taking a normal tree, stunting it's growth, cutting, twisting and wiring it into odd configurations and putting it into a pot with the sole purpose of making it look like an ancient tree...

Doesn't that make the entire scope of Bonsai...FAKE? So why get upset if you use one piece of dead tree and make a live tree grow so as to incorporate the dead tree so it looks like one old tree?

To you that TANUKI and do it well, my applause! Dance

To us who BONSAI and don't do it as well as the good TANUKIERS, we'd better get crack'en and improve! lol!

Jay

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Andrija Zokic on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote:
Andrija Zokic wrote:
Morten Albek wrote:
My personal conclusion is that I think it is not less natural than grafting another kind of Juniper or Pine foliage to a tree to replace the original foliage and so on. So go for it anyway. I think it is equally as good a technique as any other kind of technique transforming a tree.

I agree. Tanuki is fake, just like many other techniques in bonsai culture. I think that fake thinks are acceptable if they are well hidden, and well incorporated in whole design. It's quite easy to hide some small 'artificial improvement' but tanuki is usually big fake, and a lot of skill and knowledge is needed to make it look good and natural.

Using that logic, taking a normal tree, stunting it's growth, cutting, twisting and wiring it into odd configurations and putting it into a pot with the sole purpose of making it look like an ancient tree...

Doesn't that make the entire scope of Bonsai...FAKE?

Maybe fake is too strong word, I meant "illusion".


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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Jay Gaydosh on Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:47 pm

Nah! Fake, Illusion, it's all the same. I was just being a snot. The fact is as bonsai enthusiasts we take trees and try to mimic what nature would do in extreme situations. The entire concept of Bonsai is one of illusion, AND, if we get proficient enough at it, VERY IMPRESSIVE ILLUSIONS! Very Happy

Jay

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Mike Jones on Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:47 pm

Jay Gaydosh wrote:Nah! Fake, Illusion, it's all the same. I was just being a snot. The fact is as bonsai enthusiasts we take trees and try to mimic what nature would do in extreme situations. The entire concept of Bonsai is one of illusion, AND, if we get proficient enough at it, VERY IMPRESSIVE ILLUSIONS! Very Happy

Jay

Amen to that statement Jay. thumbs up

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Ron van Ravenhorst on Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:59 pm

Tanuki, complete grafting or air-layering a tree with thick trunk and a smalle vain, what is the difference? Fake? Ilusion? Or?

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:42 am

Cram, If my attempts at tanuki look anything like yours, I will be happy. I have a piece of drift wood that has been seasoning outside for two years and am looking for Parsonii or Holloywood Juniper to graft to it. I like the looks of your procumbens... hmmm! Very Happy Where did you find the drift wood. Your last photo with the spirals is awesome!
Todd

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Re: tanuki...a good learning experience?

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