Western or Japanese bonsai ?

Hi ,
I don't know where to post this so excuse me if it's in the wrong section.
Do you think that bonsai must be shaped only by the japanese codes or there could be a kind of "western" bonsai, based on japanese rules but shaped in a more naturalistic way ? So for you, like French artist François Jeker wrote in an article, is bonsai only Japanese ?

Kind regards
Kalo

P.S. : All apologises for my bad english, I have not trained it for many years !

Since many of use trees that the Japanese never heard of (especially here in Florida and other warm/tropical climates) I think there is without question a Western style using general artistic principles that are more universal than just Japanese.

I think it is generally accepted now that several "nationalistic" styles of bonsai are evolving and at least somewhat because of what Billy says, bonsaiests from various countries are using their own trees and are developing them in the styles they see those trees growing in the landscapes around them.

Walter Pall has an almost-famous essay about the "Naturalistic" style of bonsai -- growing the trees into the shapes THEY want, not forcing them ito preconceived shapes. I'm sure it is on his blog somewhere -- http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/ -- but as I said elsewhere, I haven't the time (or inclination) to do blogs.

Still many western bonsaiests do slavishly follow the latest Japanese bonsai fashions. Japanese trees seem to me to be moving farther and farther away from any remote relationship to what Mother Nature grows -- darned close (IMHO) to topiary in some respects.

In the end, I suppose, it is whatever YOU want to do with your trees. You don't need to belong to a distinctive Japanese school, a Kimura school, a naturalistic school, an Italian school, etc.

Attend your own classes in your own school.

Take a look at Charles Ceronio's "Bonsai Styles of the World." http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Styles_of_the_World_p/b1styles.htm

And Brent has something to say about various "styles" here: http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/stylesbr.htm

Thanks for your replies,
my point of view is exactly the same as yours in fact. I was just asking the question 'cause I see on many forums some debates about following the japanese school "slavishly" (according to Jim) or try to create a European (in my case) or more generaly a western school with our natives trees. Some japanese masters say that japanese bonsai is "dying" or "rotting" because of the very strict codes and that maybe western enthusiasts may save our hobby with a new vision, a fresh vision.

Check out Peter Adam's article in the last issue of "Golden Statements" (available on-line at GSBF.com ). The Subject is my friend Greg's huge California Valley Oak, Quercus lobata, styled in what Peter calls "American style"
Paul

I believe that there are self-evident "rules" that one must follow if they want their trees to suggest an emotion to the viewer, but I also think that styles is more a question of the personality of the people who train small trees into bonsai than strict codes.

I'm agree with you Alain. First, we have to learn the rules and only after you can break them to create something in relation with who you are and not only make bonsai with the regular japanese helmet !

Its a good question.

For me, I follow what looks right first, in other words, pleasing to my own eye (after all it is me that sees them more than anyone). For many of my trees I try hard to recreate something I have seen in the wild. With Scots Pine (one of my favourites) I find it quite simple to replicate a full grown tree in miniature. Thus I suppose I would not follow a set pattern et al, but have a clean looking tree that was as balanced as possible...to my eyes anyway.

With my Japanese White Pines, I would try to follow a set of guidelines - but as is the case so often I find myself in, I end up doing what works for me. Then again, I am merly a rank amatuer just enjoying my passion for Bonsai without getting too hung about what is right or wrong. Just my opinion of course.

Mike

I have forgotten where I heard this passage, but someone once stated that the art of bonsai is similar to learning how to write. You know when we are young we are taught the proper way of constructing the letters and then we move into writing cursive where we are taught the correct method. There then comes the time when we take on our own distinct form of writing that reflect who we are as individuals. Just like we can at times identify a persons signature, or even in the example of Oriental caligraphy, by certain nuances and style. The individual who made this statement has, I think, a very clear understanding of how this (bonsai) works as a form of art.

So, is this 'Western' or 'Japanese'?

First of all it is stunning work. Second, to me, it seems to be a Western take on Chinese concept.

See also the Introduction "Bonsai as a Western Art" to Colin Lewis' The Art of Bonsai Design (NY: Sterling Publishing Co., Inc.; 2001).

Yes. Colin makes excellent points in his essay. I think it is (or was) also on his website.

That slanting thing is by Kimura, if I recall rightly, so it is "Japanese." It is NOT, however, typical Japanese.

But Kimura is really not the most traditional japanese master (even if his private collection is very traditionnal). The more I see trees by japanese masters,often very far from the traditionnal bonsai, the more I think that a lot of enthusiasts try to be more japanese than the japanese themselves. Very strange. By the way, even if we study the japanese culture, western people will never be able to fully understand what lies underneath this culture. That's why it's better to do bonsai the way we feel it.

Kalogero wrote: ... .... By the way, even if we study the japanese culture, western people will never be able to fully understand what lies underneath this culture. ... ...

I strongly agree with this!
I being a Greek i.e. being of an oriental mentality more than a western/occidental can see this happening in many more aspects than bonsai.
It's has to do with our dna, I believe...
And sure I feel closer to japanese bonsai than western