trends on asian pots

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trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Sat Nov 21, 2015 12:33 am

A friend of mine just returned from japan on a buying trip for his retail bonsai shop. He showed me a tokoname catalog from five years ago, and the current one.
Olde one was about 3/8th of an inch thick, while the new one was about 1/8th of an inch thick.
Hmmm, I thought. I then started comparing variety of designs, and didn't find any in the new offerings.
So I got to thinking that either the cost is going up on the hard to find older styles-used ( i.e: long thin raft pots etc.) or you just won't be able to find much of the "different" stuff anymore.
This same person went to china a month earlier and found that market, priced at what he hoped his retail would be priced at, while seeking what he hoped would be lower wholesale pricing.


just interested in how others react to the news, of diminished selections and increased alternate costs?

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:54 pm

Dick,

simple, the chemical break down of Yi Xing clays are well known and any US potter can duplicate them.
Most of the work is simple slab and the ornament is not difficult to do.
Yi Xing built Tokoname [ Chinese Potters ].

I wouldn't worry about it too much, your Art Schools produce exceptional Artists / Craftsmen, just get to know a few.
Visit the ClayArt list and ask for help or the Atelier schools.
Good Luck.
Khaimraj [ working in pottery, but does not sell since - 1978 or so ]

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:03 pm

thanks for your reply...what I was hopeful in seeing was people's opinions as to how important it was to have a japanese pot. Or if they just wanted a pot to accentuate a tree properly no matter who made it. Does penjing bunjin style just look better in a chinese made pot? If you wanted a japanese pot and found the rght one, how much are you willing to pay for it if price is a concern?

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:41 pm

Dick,

Design.
Mate the tree with pot = Design.
Japanese or Chinese or English or American is not important - Design is.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:31 pm

I quess i basically agree with you....but to have a pot by a certain artist or from a certain kiln has some desirerability to me. If I had to pick my favorite pot from all my collection it would be from UK artist ,Dan Barton, which is the one pictured as my avaitar (toad climbing into pot) while Dan had me email a picture of the proposed tree to be put in the pot. the thought of putting something in it, well I haven't been able to do so. Put it outside so it can begin to show age and patina....are you kidding me...lol...quess I'm a little more picky then I'd like to admitt!

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:18 pm

Thanks for allowing me to tease you.

I know from another post that you like things Oriental or was it Japanese ?
Hopefully some of the other members will also chime in.
Best Wishes.
Khaimraj

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:54 am

It started out japanese but have evolved to include chinese and korean, so I quess my interest could best be expressed as "asian"...I think in appreciating anything in life, it helps to be more inclusive rather than exclusive.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  jgeanangel on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:33 am

dick benbow wrote:thanks for your reply...what I was hopeful in seeing was people's opinions as to how important it was to have a japanese pot. Or if they just wanted a pot to accentuate a tree properly no matter who made it. Does penjing bunjin style just look better in a chinese made pot? If you wanted a japanese pot and found the rght one, how much are you willing to pay for it if price is a concern?

I love Japanese containers, but would be happy as a lark if I could fulfill my needs with Western potters and stones of course. Western potters are getting better and better but still seem to lack the diversity that you can find among Japanese pots. For me, I still find it difficult to source larger unglazed containers as well as shallower containers and trays from Western sources.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:34 am

Jgean,

As stones go or rather went, they are personal. Ancient scholars of China would go out and search for those special " children" and having found them,
would treasure them for the stimulation they brought to the mind.
Today, we spend too much time trying to purchase and not enough time exploring.

I spend hours walking the beach, and because we are stone deficient, have to settle for whatever I can find. Fortunately, we are clay rich, and there is a certain clay I really want. It is super plastic, but not Bentonite, it has body, and it is rare.
Once in while I may find a stone, but that is very once in a while.

Those I take home, are in individual containers, and rubbed with baby oil once in a while. I am not sure I really want stones that are coated in drying oils.

Years ago, an IBCer, sent me 10 lbs of stones from California, now that is a memory of joy.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  kevin stoeveken on Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:13 pm

dick benbow wrote:...Or if they just wanted a pot to accentuate a tree properly no matter who made it.

dick - you can plant my flag in this camp.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Mon Nov 23, 2015 8:24 pm

thanks, I thought had I been given a few more comments that this would have been the majority thinking

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Chinese & Japanese Pots

Post  reddog on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:11 pm

I prefer older Chinese and Japanese pots for my trees.  Western potters' work doesn't have the advantage of time to develop the richness of of age.  Maybe in twenty plus years this is a different conversation.  Just my opinion.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  William N. Valavanis on Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:43 pm

I'm in Tokoname now, waiting for bus to take my tour to the five top potters. I'll let you know soon what I discover.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:26 am

thank-you both for your comments.....

Bill, if I was your shadow, I don't think I could keep up with you. You make the energizer bunny look bad....Smile

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  William N. Valavanis on Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:16 am

Dick, Yes you could keep up with me now. I'm only running on 14% of my heart! Hopefully, I'll return to normal soon. Just returned back to hotel from all day at Tokoname. I'll let you know an update after dinner and Japanese bath...

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  William N. Valavanis on Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:24 am

Yesterday our tour visited Tokonme where I discussed bonsai containers with one of the top pot dealers IN Tokoname.

About 20 years ago there were over 100 potters actively making bonsai containers.
Today there are about 10 potters making bonsai containers.

Several of the potters are no longer making pots, but rather living off the stock made years ago. Once sold out, that container is gone.

The pot catalog has been reduced in size.

I found it interesting that Gyozan, considered to be the current best bonsai potter in Japan only fires his kiln two or possibly three times a year.

Check out my last blog entry on our visit to Tokoname with 18 photos. Here is one of Gyozan.

www.valavanisbonsaiblog.com


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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  JimLewis on Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:07 pm

This may say something about trends of bonsai in Japan.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  LanceMac10 on Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:19 pm

Thanks for all the wonderful photos on your blog, Bill.
It's a shame that the practice seems to be fading away in Japan.
Sad

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:21 pm

Hmm, get those Western potters cracking.

Seriously, back in the late 80's my sister wanted to start a pottery of her own. Trouble was whenever she put anything new for sale, which she had designed and created, someone quickly copied it. Folk down here don't care who makes what and what level of quality.
So where my sister's work was food safe and functional [ because I spent much time developing the glazes from oxides, and doing the local clay digging/ cleaning beyond 325 mesh ], they used the Ceramic moulding stuff.

As long as you don't break a pot, they will build in numbers.

Dick, there is China Clayart, coming out if California [ the guy imports Yi-Xing clay for re-sale ] you can find him with a google or through ClayArt on-line.

I am suddenly glad that I can make my own pots.
Laters.
Khaimraj

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:30 pm

khaimraj,
You are lucky to be able to make your own pots.
We have a potter in our local club who allowed me to make a pot. I made a salamander climbing into the pot from over the rim.
Lots of good comments from the others but I thought it looked a bit "hoaky".....


Bill enjoyed your URL for your travels. thanks for posting.....

Was excited to read your working on a book of display. Yeah!

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  kora on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:23 am

I have been going frequently to Tokoname in the last 20 years-yes Bill and I are doing the tours together. I have found, that just as in bonsai, the younger generation is not interested in following in the footsteps of their parents, and in some cases there is just not enough market for top of the line Japanese pots. f. i. Gyozans son Yuji is not able to make a living as a potter, even though his pots are considered very fine-hard to distinguish from Gyozan-he makes his living driving a truck. Additionally, the Chinese are forging a lot of Japanese pots, complete with fake chop and or signature.Gyozan gave me one of the fakes, he knows I will not try to sell it as an original-the shape is ok, the color is off and so is the weight, but you would not know that, if you had not seen one of the real pots, and certainly not buying it on line. When it comes to bonsai pots, you need to decide, if you want a well constructed, hand made pot and pay commensurate price, or are satisfied with a molded pot, with minimal or no hand finishing at a more affordable price.
It is important to know, that just because a pot is made in Tokoname, does not mean it is either hand made or of great quality-you need to know the kiln, the potter, how long ago it was made. While Tokoname has produced many wonderful pots, by good potters, there are so many more potters in Japan, not associated with Tokoname, who have made exceptonal pots.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  dick benbow on Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:47 pm

thank-you Kora for adding your contribution to what is happening with the industry.

Impermanence is very zen, and understood by the japanese citizenship over the eons of time. It was then and continues to be....

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  JimLewis on Sat Dec 26, 2015 5:48 pm

the younger generation is not interested in following in the footsteps of their parents,


It seems ever so.  Last I was there, I saw young folks on the Ginza and elsewhere with faces buried in Ipads just like over here -- oblivious to the world around them.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  kora on Sat Dec 26, 2015 6:04 pm

Unfortunately, there is also such a limited demand for high quality bonsai pots, so that it becomes very difficult to make a living as a potter.

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Re: trends on asian pots

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:00 pm

Please don't worry about run away technology and those who can't handle it.

This is normal for humans, been happening since caveman Ogg.

There is a small % of humans. less than 1/2 of a %, that thinks and creates, even smaller % at genius level.
The many, will get lost in technology, until they are shown the way.
Plus they pay for the real research - weapons technology, space exploration - better than having to tax John Public.

Hmm, Bonsai pots, are hyped as Luxury Items, they are not.
The trees for x months are things of perfection, then they continue to grow on.

When you die they change hands and you are forgotten.

As frame is to oil painting, so tree is to pot.

Our interest is the tree, not the pot.

If you want pottery of quality, see - the Percival David collection [ google ] - for Ru / Ju Yao Wares etc.

What is the difference between craft and Fine Art ----------- $$$$$$

Did you get into Oil painting to get rich, did you get in Pottery to get rich --------------- NO ----------- to do what what you are meant to do best!!!

Sometimes you luck out $$$$$$$$$$$, sometimes you live simply and are happy.

Bonsai is the plaything of the very rich.
The Internet is the plaything of the poor.
Laters.
Khaimraj

* I am also playing on the Internet, so no mud slinging Laughing Laughing Laughing



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Re: trends on asian pots

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