Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:55 pm

Hi IBC folks,

I just got this Itoigawa from a nursery today with quite some twists. I came up with a rough virtual, but I need your input as well.



Here is the 15sec virtual:



Getting to this point will take some time; structural wiring will be done in March or early April.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  Stan Kengai on Sat Nov 01, 2014 12:50 pm

Your virt is an option, but there are certainly others. However, it's hard for anyone else to give you input based on 1 picture. What if you tilt the pot the other way and make the plant upright? The more pictures you post, the more opinions you'll get.

The problem I see with your virt is the pigeon-breasted portion of the trunk. You're going to have to shari a good portion of it to reduce the perceived reverse taper.

Stan Kengai
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  appalachianOwl on Sat Nov 01, 2014 5:51 pm

I like your idea. I would recommend creating the spiral shari before removing that large branch for sure, and as Stan has mentioned some strategic carving could correct that inverse spot.

appalachianOwl
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:17 pm

Thanks for the response. I will post more pictures when I get the chance.

As for the 'pigeon breast', that will be hidden behind the foliage... I might also do some carving in that area. There really isn't much of a inverse taper either, but once the tree is planted in an angle, what may seem to be inverse taper will be gone; not to mention the shari will disguise it nicely as well.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:44 pm

Update:


juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  LanceMac10 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:29 pm

It's gettin' there.....nice job! Still planing on doing the deadwood feature with the top? If so, whats going to be your timing.....Thanks for the update.

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:37 pm

For the moment, I am using the top as a sacrifice; not only for the trunk, but also for building some substance around the deadwood. I will start working on the deadwood most probably by next May or June.

One thing that is not very clear in the picture is the Shari I created around 5 to 6 weeks ago. The edges have already calloused over nicely; every year in early summer I will work on improving that Shari.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:56 pm

juniper07 wrote:One thing that is not very clear in the picture is the Shari I created around 5 to 6 weeks ago.

more pictures would certainly take care of that...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:56 pm

Here is a picture of the shari that goes quite some distance up the trunk.



juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:36 pm

did you follow the known vein of a branch that was removed (or would later be removed) or what was aesthetically pleasing ?

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:39 pm

The shari is following all the way to the base of the sacrifice branch (that will be jinned later). But frankly, this is a spiral shari and the tree isn't twisted... so I am sure I am cutting through the nutrition line for the other branches.

That is why the shari initially is extremely thin to reduce the risk of loosing any branches; and I am glad that the shari is healing over well (since it was done around 6+ weeks ago), and all the branches are healthy and growing so far.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:50 pm

juniper07 wrote:The shari is following all the way to the base of the sacrifice branch (that will be jinned later). But frankly, this is a spiral shari and the tree isn't twisted... so I am sure I am cutting through the nutrition line for the other branches.

That is why the shari initially is extremely thin to reduce the risk of loosing any branches; and I am glad that the shari is healing over well (since it was done around 6+ weeks ago), and all the branches are healthy and growing so far.

good deal... i learned the hard way...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:56 pm

Ideally, the best way to create spiral sharis is to wire a young whip of shimpaku and let the wire dig into the bark. Later (after a few growing periods) remove the wire and apply a thicker wire to avoid the cambium from healing over the original wire. Let this dig in for another few years.

After around 7 to 8 years (from the original application of wire), remove the wire. Now, remove the bark from the original wired spiral scar. This is the safer method (though slower) of creating a spiral shari. Another advantage is that the wire scar creates the curved washboard effect of an age-old shari with this method.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:16 pm

hhhmmm... i have something that i just might try that on.

thanks

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  M. Frary on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:37 am

Not really a fan of the spiral sharis myself. They almost always remind me of candy canes or barbers poles. Just my opinion and not trying to be offensive in any way. Just like too much deadwood isn't very attractive to me either. For me a little goes a long way. A little jin here and there. A tear in the bark under the gin to make it look like the branch peeled bark off on its way down is alright also.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  Vlad on Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:20 am

The spiral(ish) live veins are fairly frequent on common junipers in their habitat in the place I live.   So I hope to have a nice juniper with that type of shari one day.  

I like your design sketch.  

Just to make it more credible I would reconsider the direction of the shari - it should follow the grain of the wood.   On the pic posted on 24th there is a bit of clash for me as the shari crosses the wood fibers.  The creation of realistic dead wood will be quite challenging in my opinion.

Vlad
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:25 pm

M. Frary,
I completely agree with you that a little goes a long way in terms of deadwood. But where I differ is that this statement is subjective to the tree and even species. I have seen many Rocky Mountain Junipers in the wild with very extensive deadwood all over in many directions (even on thinner branches). At the same time I have seen trees (e.g pines) with minimal deadwood that seem very appealing in terms of naturalness... any additional deadwood would not have the same appealing effect.

Vlad,
Nice catch on the direction of the shari. I didn't miss that, I actually considered both directions. The reason I chose anti-clockwise is because it's visually more apparent. The other way would be hidden almost completely behind the foliage... and if I moved the foliage any further, then I would have lost the compactness; a bit of a compromise was given there.

I have learned over the years that styling (especially evergreens) has a lot to do with compromise with the goal of maximum visual effect in mind.

juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  M. Frary on Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:59 pm

My whole problem with deadwood lies in the fact I'm an arbirist. When I see a tree half dead at work it tells me it isn't healthy. So when I work on my trees I make them look healthy. It's a mind thing I know. But I can't help it and I am getting better.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:26 pm

I finally jinned the top. Another advantage of letting the wire dig in is that when you jin that branch, the digged wire trail creates more variation in depth.



juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  LanceMac10 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:33 pm

Only my opinion, but the deadwood seems a little "heavy" visually. Well done, regardless of THIS schmuck....I like how the tree's image is slowly maturing. Pot.......? Smile

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  juniper07 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:22 pm

Here is the Sarah Rayner pot I got this past weekend from the Midwest show in Chicago. I think its a good match.



juniper07
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  LanceMac10 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:34 pm

Ohhhhh........that looks pretty nice!! I have three or four of her pots. I might actually have trees worthy in a couple years!! A grafted Kiyozuru Shimpaku from the Ishii's in California and some small JBPs and an import JWP by 2018 at the latest. Dance

Hopefully that one you have wil be horticulturely as well.
Looks adequate enough.
Looking forward to it's progession!!



Thanks for sharing. drunken

LanceMac10
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:21 pm

hah !
i actually picked that pot up and was considering it, but eventually went with a different one...
it was my first raynor pot...

btw - i agree with lance re: the heaviness on the jin...
primarily the upper part...

_________________

AAC Original Milwaukee Wi. Chapter - North America

aka beer city snake
link to ARBOR ARTS COLLECTIVE BLOG

kevin stoeveken
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Itoigawa Material from a Nursery

Post  Sponsored content Today at 1:00 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum