Zelkova serrata

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Zelkova serrata

Post  Rick36 on Thu May 01, 2014 6:22 pm

Does anyone have experience of grafting Zelkova? I am particularly interested to know if it can be done using Ulmus stock and Zelkova scion? If these are considered too distant, what is the alternative?
Also - does anyone know which stock is used commercially for grafting Zelkova "Kiwi Sunset"? I assume it is done to reduce the height of the eventual tree, which would otherwise be too tall for use in gardens. I'm aware of the cutting and seed sowing techniques, so please don't just say "try this" instead.  Cheers. Rick.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  Leo Schordje on Sat May 03, 2014 4:55 pm

I have no experience with grafting zelkova. Zelkova root easily as cuttings. They also form roots easily when air layered. So there usually is no need to do grafting.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  AlainK on Sun May 04, 2014 4:55 am

Leo Schordje wrote:I have no experience with grafting zelkova. Zelkova root easily as cuttings. They also form roots easily when air layered. So there usually is no need to do grafting.

Leo's right.

It's the first time I've heard about this cultivar, but the plain pecies is very easy to propagate from hardwood cuttings taken in February so you should give it a try. I don't have any experience with softwood cuttings but why not give it a go?

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  Rick36 on Sun May 04, 2014 10:27 am

Hello Leo and Alain, and thankyou for the responses. I already have cuttings of Zelkova making good progress and am waiting a little longer to start air layers. Hence my question re-grafting. I have a "Kiwi Sunset" to experiment with - can do cuttings and layers OK, but this tree is grafted.(and all others I've seen for sale are grafted specimens). Obviously this is done to control vigour, or could it be that it is for quicker results and commercially they use 'ordinary' Zelkova stock with "Kiwi Sunset" scion? By the way - nice tree Alain. I like the airy look, too. Cheers.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  steveb on Sat May 17, 2014 5:52 pm

I've tried air layering Zelkova a couple of times with no success. I basically do what most books say to do - cut a band of bark from around a branch (or trunk), add rooting hormone, wrap in moist moss, wrap that with plastic wrap, tie in place, leave for 1 year. I've tried on a 1 inch branch and a 2 inch trunk. In both case, the bark grew back. For the 2 inch air layer, the band of bark that I removed was about 2 inches wide.

Have you done anything differently that this?

I'm now trying the tourniquet method where I have tightly wrapped a wire around the trunk and buried it in the ground.

Thanks.
Steve

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  0soyoung on Sat May 17, 2014 8:10 pm

steveb wrote:I've tried air layering Zelkova a couple of times with no success.  I basically do what most books say to do - cut a band of bark from around a branch (or trunk), add rooting hormone, wrap in moist moss, wrap that with plastic wrap, tie in place, leave for 1 year.  I've tried on a 1 inch branch and a 2 inch trunk.  In both case, the bark grew back.  For the 2 inch air layer, the band of bark that I removed was about 2 inches wide.  

Have you done anything differently that this?  

I'm now trying the tourniquet method where I have tightly wrapped a wire around the trunk and buried it in the ground.

Thanks.
Steve  

Zelkova's root easily. It sounds like you may not have removed all the cambium from the girdle - was there still a geen tint to the wood in the girdle? At any rate, wiping it down with isopropyl alcohol will do the job.

The tourniquet method will produce a basal flare (right above the tourniquet) and will take 2x or 3x longer - you likely won't get anything other than the flare this year.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  steveb on Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:59 am

I am pretty sure I removed the green cambrium layer from the ring that was cut, but, I may not have. If the tourniquet doesn't work, I'll try using isopropyl alcohol and cutting another ring.

Thanks for the suggestion.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  Guest on Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:32 am

Cut out the ring as per normal then apply a tourniquet at the cut edge you want roots to form, it induces lots more flare and prevents growing over of the cut. It is particularly useful on larger diameter layers  Wink 

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:32 pm

hey matt... just to be clear, do you put the tourniquet at the top edge of the cut or the bottom ???

stupid question ???

i am currently trying my first air layers and so i'm not sure which side of the band (top or bottom) has the most potential for growing over as opposed to growing roots... my instinct says tourniquet at the top of the band but want to be sure for next time (unless i try the split pot method).


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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  GerhardGerber on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:02 pm

steveb wrote:I've tried air layering Zelkova a couple of times with no success.  I basically do what most books say to do - cut a band of bark from around a branch (or trunk), add rooting hormone, wrap in moist moss, wrap that with plastic wrap, tie in place, leave for 1 year.  I've tried on a 1 inch branch and a 2 inch trunk.  In both case, the bark grew back.  For the 2 inch air layer, the band of bark that I removed was about 2 inches wide.  

Have you done anything differently that this?  

I'm now trying the tourniquet method where I have tightly wrapped a wire around the trunk and buried it in the ground.

Thanks.
Steve  
Hi

I did multiple levels of air layers on the same tree and only had one fail, and the failure was due to a mistake on my part.
Zelkova serrata air layers easily, no wire tourniquet required. On the thickest layer I made vertical cuts about 1cm apart all the way around, peeled the flaps away from the trunk and bind some wire underneath the flaps to keep them flared. This is a shortcut to a flared base on the tree and it works.....this from advice I got on another forum
I've got the rest of that tree and 2 more from a close-out sale that will be layered come spring.
Also got a zelkova carpinifolia which will get the same treatment.

BTW, I only use the split-pot method potted with coarse sand only......high maintenance, have to be watered regularly, but I like the results.

Also, be careful, new Zelkova roots are fragile to the point of being a pain.....

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  GerhardGerber on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:12 pm

Found some pics:



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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  kevin stoeveken on Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:31 pm

wow... even on the main trunk feeding the branches above ?!?!?  Shocked 

crrrrazy !

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  AlainK on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:01 am

beer city snake wrote:wow... even on the main trunk feeding the branches above ?!?!?  Shocked 

crrrrazy !

That's not a problem as long as there are a couple of branches between the first layer and the next one: the phloem sap goes up, and if there are some leaves above the part where the air-layer has been done, phloem sap, which will feed the new roots, can go down.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  kevin stoeveken on Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:30 pm

he "blinded me with SCIENCE !!!"
(thomas dolby)

thanks... i might give that a shot.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  Guest on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:36 pm

beer city snake wrote:hey matt... just to be clear, do you put the tourniquet at the top edge of the cut or the bottom ???

stupid question ???

i am currently trying my first air layers and so i'm not sure which side of the band (top or bottom) has the most potential for growing over as opposed to growing roots... my instinct says tourniquet at the top of the band but want to be sure for next time (unless i try the split pot method).


Grow over will happen mainly from the top down & that is also where you want your roots (unless your tree is upsidedown) his is also where you put the tourniquet  ThumbsUp 

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  kevin stoeveken on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:38 am

so everything happens/begins at the top edge of the cut collar...
(unless, as you said, you are working with a cascade  Wink  )

thanks !

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  steveb on Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:33 am

Thanks for the help. I already put a tourniquet around the trunk and buried it. If it doesn't look like it is starting to swell come October when I dig it up, I will cut another ring, apply alcohol, cut the diagonal strips 1 cm long as was suggested, add another wire around the top of the ring, and bury again.

This about covers it all... Very Happy 

Thanks again.
Steve

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  Rick36 on Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:32 am

I'll take that as a "no" then.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  GerhardGerber on Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:04 pm

Hi

Here's a pic of the cut, and with the wire under the flaps to flare them.



This method is well worthwhile on thicker branches, and for all air-layer cuts don't be scared to go into the wood a bit.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

Post  steveb on Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:00 am

Thanks again. I'll try that.

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Re: Zelkova serrata

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