Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

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Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:43 pm

I've seen people bend thick branches by creating a hollow/canal on branches and inserting heavy copper wire or rod in before wrapping with raffia, more parallel copper wire, tape, wrapped wire, etc.

1. How is the inserted rod secured so it will stay centered (won't go out of the "canal" center or more to the edge)?
2. Is it intended to be abandoned in place later and let the tree heal over it?
3. If #2 is yes, won't it cause health problems to the tree in the long run?

Thank you,

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  milehigh_7 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:23 pm

Ask Victrinia to explain her technique. She is very nice and will go out of her way not only to help you but she is very humble. Seriously one of the best people I have met in 12 years in this hobby.

milehigh_7
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:29 pm

Thanks! She hasn't been here the past 3 months and I cannot enter BNut right now (something about exceeded bandwith problem now). I will try later.

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  dick benbow on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:38 pm

she's scheduled to work with me at weyerhaeuser tomorrow. I'll bring your request to her attention, then... I too aminterested because I got an old tool still in the package to do that with. I hear they don't make these tools anymore...

dick benbow
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:40 pm

Thanks Dick! Can you post a pic of the tool? I intend to use power tools to hollow if I ever attempt this.

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  dick benbow on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:11 pm

am in middle of re-securing my house after a break in and robbery. putting in a new front door so may be late with any photo

dick benbow
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:16 pm

Sorry to hear that Dick. I hope all is well.

No rush and if you forget or can't get to it, that is totally understandable. No problem.

No tree is harmed or taken I hope.

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  milehigh_7 on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:24 pm

Wow Dick, sorry to hear about this. Is everyone okay?

milehigh_7
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  JudyB on Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:45 pm

Pardon the off topic post Dario,

Dick I'm so sorry to hear this, I do hope that you are all ok.

Ok, back on topic - here is a link to the blog of Vic and Eric, and this is a post about that very technique that you are asking about.
http://bonsaiotaku.com/2012/07/11/rocky-mountain-juniper-no-guts-no-glory/

JudyB
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:15 am

Thanks Judy.

The technique shown/used is similar but not quite the same as the one I am asking about.

Poink88
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Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  will baddeley on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:26 am

If I understand you correctly you will be carving a channel to take the wire? If you fill the channel with wire and then raffia the length of the channel, there is no way that the wire will move.

will baddeley
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:33 am

Will,

The wire will be embedded in the channel which is deeper than the wire diameter. There will be a gap between the edge of the wire and the edge of the branch for it to move/migrate even after wrapping with raffia and I want to know how to avoid that movement.

Thank you,

Poink88
Member


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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  will baddeley on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:40 am

Why not put extra wire in? If you don't want to, cut some small sections of twig and hold them in with raffia that goes around the branch. Whenever I have carved a channel, I filled the cavity with wire though. Much easier.

will baddeley
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:51 am

Thanks Will, I just saw the technique can't even recall where, I am assuming it was desired to put it in center, maybe to even the bending effort.

On my 2nd question...do you leave the wire in or remove it after?

Thanks!

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Fore on Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Dario, I'm pretty sure you leave it in and I assumed the cavity will form a callous....Hence why I've always wondered what these trunks/bark looks like yrs after the procedure? Won't there be a long callous visible along the entire affected area? If so, it'd look very artificial. I'd love to see some pics of trees that had this done yrs ago.

Fore
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  JudyB on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:14 pm

Poink88 wrote:Thanks Judy.

The technique shown/used is similar but not quite the same as the one I am asking about.

Just curious, what is different about this than what you are looking for??? (wire in a concavity taped in and secured to move a large branch...)

JudyB
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:20 pm

JudyB wrote:Just curious, what is different about this than what you are looking for??? (wire in a concavity taped in and secured to move a large branch...)

Same as my response to will.
Poink88 wrote:Will,

The wire will be embedded in the channel which is deeper than the wire diameter. There will be a gap between the edge of the wire and the edge of the branch for it to move/migrate even after wrapping with raffia and I want to know how to avoid that movement.

Thank you,

Poink88
Member


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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Jesse McMahon on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:08 pm

http://walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com/2011/04/what-to-do-with-straight-black-pine-1.html

This entry on Walter Pall's blog might be something akin to what you're looking for. I remembered seeing this entry last year and enjoying the info Walter relates to people commenting below the photoseries. Might help answer some of your questions.

Jesse McMahon
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Poink88 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:46 pm

Jesse,

It sure helped. Walter mentioned they will remove the wire/rod. Now, it is not as critical to keep the wire centered (I think).

Thanks! cheers

Poink88
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Jesse McMahon on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:53 pm

You're welcome! I found that part to be critically informative myself. It seems to me that it's just there to keep the branch from splintering into sections. Much like longitudinal wires underneath raffia for major bends but internally, since you're having to hollow it out anyways. Glad that helped.

And thanks to Walter Pall for such an awesome resource. I know he lurks around these parts from time to time.

Jesse McMahon
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  JudyB on Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:11 am

AHHH, I get it now. Good link to the WP...Thanks.

JudyB
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Re: Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  Fore on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:14 am

My bad, I should've read Walters piece first tongue

Fore
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Heavy bending w/ inserted rd question.

Post  will baddeley on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:48 am

Whether the wire stays in or not is dependent on the trees ability to callous. I would always carve a channel in the back of a branch or trunk if possible but if it is within view, then perhaps some crafty carving will be needed in the future. You can see this technique used on a Pine I styled recently but the channel and wired section was removed after grafting. You can see the Aluminium wire has been cut through in picture 3 http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t9765-will-baddeley-s-gallery#120195

will baddeley
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