Brazilian Rain Trees

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Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Mon May 14, 2012 4:15 am

Is there anyone familar with brazilian Rain Trees? I cannot find anywhere on the internet any information that tells me how long it takes a BRT to bloom from seed, and how long from a cutting. Can anyone help?

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Mon May 14, 2012 4:51 am

From speaking with Erik Wigert about this it seems that there are two main sub-species usually found in The USA that are used for Bonsai, here's more info from Erik's website
http://www.wigertsbonsai.com/documents/articles_brazilianraintree.pdf

Trees cloned from the original mother plant at Jupiter bonsai I believe are the non-flowering sort. Yet the growth habit is a bit more desirable as Erik told me they form a more interesting trunk. My tree is around 15 years old and has never flowered.

Another thing I've read is that in order for the tree to flower it needs to put on some pretty heavy extension, usually we trim branches back long before they would produce their flowers.


-Jay

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon May 14, 2012 11:01 am

I bought a tree from Jupiter Bonsai some years ago and it flowered and set seed the first year I had it. I have at least two others from Jupiter and I can't recall if they have bloomed or not. I keep tropicals in the greenhouse from November to March. I know the older, larger tree bloomed this year soon after I brought it out. I want to do some major work on it but my wife asked me to let it bloom before I pruned it.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Mon May 14, 2012 3:24 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:I bought a tree from Jupiter Bonsai some years ago and it flowered and set seed the first year I had it.

It's interesting that Erik mentions Allen Carver agreeing with him in that he sees the two different types regularly in his nursery, My non- flowering BRT is also from Jupiter via Wigert's. I wish there were more info available on the flowering habits of these trees. Most of the info I've found online is actually from Bonsai folks sharing their own experience.

-Jay

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Russell Coker on Mon May 14, 2012 4:01 pm


drgonzo wrote: Most of the info I've found online is actually from Bonsai folks sharing their own experience.


Type brazilian rain tree into the search bar of the bonsai discussion forum and countless threads pop up. I don't know if you'll find the answer, but I bet you'll find someone who knows.

Marvelous invention, that search bar.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon May 14, 2012 8:57 pm

I suspect that the only people growing this tree "in captivity" are doing so for Bonsai.

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Brazilizn Rain Trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Tue May 15, 2012 3:36 am

This is why i like forums! I ask a question and usually get many different opinions. Yes, i aslo wish there was more inforamtion on the internet about BRT blooming. I cant even find a picture of one in bloom. Just mimosas wichare a temperate relation to the BRT. Matter of fact, anyone and everyone that talks about these trees and does videos doesnt even speak of them blooming or anything about the flowers other than there white and turn yellow before they seed and that theyre the same type of flower as a mimosa wich produces whats called a silk flower. Very strong sent and attracts humming birds,bees, and several other critters. I just bought my first one from erik wigert, i was told its 4 years old. This one will not be prunes for several years so well see. Im just going to feed it and allow it to grow until its a very large trunk caliper. Toward the end of its composistion i want as much fluting in the trunk as i can possibly get. Then i will start to remove some branches and shape it. I do know that the fluting is caused by the branches extending and once you remove that branch that flute will stay but will not get any more defined. One other thing i need to know is do they backbud readily and do they backbud on the trunk and older wood? I ask Erik many questions but most of the time i get responses from his wife wich bless her heart but she just does not have the knowledge her husband does. I respect her for trying though. I love these trees and finally got one and one of the reasons is for the flowers. I have many mimosas and i love those trees too. many people hate and destroy them and concider then a pest but i wish everyone would stop and take a minute to see thier beauty! I think thier flowers are like no other. Not to mention the leaves open and close due to day and night and temperature and weather and thats cool as crap in and of itself! Surely i am not the only one who thinks so. Thanks again everyone!

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Tue May 15, 2012 3:54 am

BRT will back bud with ease, defoliation will encourage this and is an important part of building branch ramification in these trees.
-Jay

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Tue May 15, 2012 4:32 am

If you bought a raintree from Wigert's, more than likely, you don't have the flowering kind. I'm pretty sure he propagates what he sells from cuttings, rather than from seed. Jay and I both have trees that originated as cuttings from the same raintree and mine have never flowered.

You will get different variations from seed. I'm not sure where Billy got his from, but him, Reg-i and Marcelo Martins in Brazil, have the only ones I've ever heard of flowering.

Jay is right, they backbud easily as long as they're healthy.

I have three little guys (from seed) that sprouted a few months ago and if they ever flower, I'll be sure to post them on here as well as how long it took for them to do so.

Good luck with your tree. Feel free to share some pictures with us. Russell is right, you should get quite a few results by searching for "Raintree" on this forum.
Have a great week!!!
Sam

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue May 15, 2012 9:02 pm

The original source of Rain Trees for Bonsai was Jim Moody in Jupiter, Florida. My tree that flowers came from him, probably 15 years ago. His grandson Alan Carver took over his business when Jim Moody died. As far as I know, Erik Wigert's stock came from Alan Carver.

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Brazilizn Rain Trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Wed May 16, 2012 12:37 am

Im not sure as to where Erik gets his but i know he gets trees imported twice a year every year. I feed my trees well and my trees that flower or can flower a high phosphate fertilizer for blooms and fruits. My tropicals do not slow down in the winter because i keep them at a perfect growing temperature and humidity all winter and do not cut back on the fertilizer. Theyre kept all winter and taken care of just the same as they are in summer. They do great, dont even miss a beat. I quess ill know within a few years if it will bloom. I thought all BRT's had the potential to bloom. No one ever talks about this either. I had no idea there was even a variety that doesnt bloom. Ill keep buying one i quess until i get one that will. Thanks again everyone!

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  velezdav on Wed May 16, 2012 1:07 am

Hello , also Jim Smith has lotz of Brazilian Raintree , in my area ( Orlando ) i hears allot of people using the airlayer ..... here is one of my club member talking about it , also there are more videos on more trees ...... youtube Orlando bonsai tv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUDpIc5nETg&list=UUBiB3nY0NSSRkcFr7DAlyNg&index=1&feature=plcp

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Wed May 16, 2012 2:15 am

jake4bonsai wrote:Im not sure as to where Erik gets his but i know he gets trees imported twice a year every year.

Erik gets a twice yearly import from China, (Ficus retusa, fukein's chi-elms etc..) BRT's would not be among these. Erik told me he had purchased Rain trees from Jupiter many years ago. He then cloned some field grown stock from these. My tree was started 10 years ago from a cutting of stock bought at Jupiter back when Erik was on Pine island. I'm not sure what mix of trees at Jupiter would still bare the original lineage of that first seed grown tree of Jim's or what has been imported and reproduced since then.

My question now is; Has Jim's tree flowered?
-Jay

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Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Fri May 18, 2012 4:30 am

I know Paul Pikel at Orlando Bonsai. I have all of his videos and watch them regularly. Theres not many if any videos i havent seen on bonsai on the interent. I am also subscribed to about all that are worth keeping in touchwith so i know when they post new videos. I like paul, hes good. Ive got Bjorn Bjornholm coming to our club this month and i tried to get Erik Wigert this year too but his wife said he was fully booked this summer already. I talked to Ryan Niel several months ago and he is booked all the way until into 2013! I would love to get Erik up here to specificly learn more on brazilian rain trees. Or Paul Pikel but he will only really go to certain places and clubs and were not a big city club. We really just started our club this year but has been in the works since this past fall. Bjorn was more than happy and willing to come to get us off the ground and to help put us more into the bonsai community. I appriciate him greatly!

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Fri May 18, 2012 4:40 am

Thank you Jake for the little bit of inside info into the bonsai teaching circuit. I know Erik has gotten busier and busier each year, his business alone must take up a tremendous amount of time. And I agree Bjorn pretty much rocks!

-Jay

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri May 18, 2012 6:23 pm

This is the tree I mentioned. I suspect it is about 20 years from a cutting. I bought it from Jim Moody before he died, it was in a 3 gallon nursery pot and I think I paid $65 this was over 10 years ago. I am showing some flower buds that are out of focus, sorry, I need a different lens. A detail of the trunk and the entire tree.






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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  LordEOfBeckley on Fri May 18, 2012 7:14 pm

My BRT's flower like crazy, one has probably had 30+ flowers in the last month... I've yet to get a seed pod off them yet Confused . These really are my favorite trees though... they make up for not having an ideal climate for Tridents (though I am trying to keep hope alive for the tridents that I do have).

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri May 18, 2012 7:23 pm

This is the second blooming cycle for this tree this spring.

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Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  jake4bonsai on Fri May 18, 2012 10:50 pm

See your season starts much earlier in florida and is much longer than here in ohio. Sometimes i think id like to live in florida because i love tropicals but then losing all of my temperate trees that i love just as much reminds me why i remain. Winters are getting warmer amd warmer here though so its not been bad and all my tropicals keep the withdraw to a minimum! Lol. Ill try to post a pick of the rain tree i got from wigerts. Its not much to look at now but i hope with a few years itll be great. Does anyone know if they grow as fast as all other tropicals? Also i want to let it grow and get alot bigger but i dont know if i should just let it grow totally untouched for several years or if i need to prune it a little to keep back buds growing. Its putting on growth but i feel as if its in the wrong places. I want it to get taller but all the growth is going out horizontally due to them pruning the top to get it into the box. Can anyone shed some light? It may help more once i get a picture up. I may also do a video of it and put it on my youtube channel so people can see it better.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  LordEOfBeckley on Fri May 18, 2012 11:40 pm

I'm no expert on anything bonsai, but I can tell you what I've seen my 2 BRT's do. I have a smaller one that I'm training in a flat top type style, it seems to be fitting the style pretty well. I'm actually looking for some vertical growth now, but not getting much. the larger one is more traditional... I'm getting crazy growth up top (horizontal and vertical), and much less at the bottom (which is where I need it). I need this one to get wider and the flat top to get a little taller... both are doing the opposite Confused Confused . They do respond well to heavy pruning, and I'm sure you'll find that you'll get some growth up top if you let it go. For growth speed... mine grow much faster than anything else I have.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  drgonzo on Sat May 19, 2012 12:31 am

The only trees I have that seems to be able to outgrow my BRT are the willows. Now thats saying something.

I think BRT tends to be apically dominant but giving the top a good chop after a nice extension of new growth will re-direct energy downwards nicely.

-Jay

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed May 23, 2012 5:43 pm

This photo is from 5/21/2012 on my Brazilian Raintree from Jim Moody. This is the second flush of bloom this year. The first was more impressive with the tree covered with white. This time it is one bloom here and there. I did look at my other two Raintrees and I don't think either has bloomed, I think both were purchased from Alan Carver after his grandfathers death.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  reg-i on Wed May 23, 2012 6:04 pm

I have hundreds of flowers on mine right now with some that are starting to form seed pods, also most of my airlayers, once there removed from the mother tree, flower right away. I will try to get pics later

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brazilian rain trees

Post  moyogijohn on Wed May 23, 2012 6:10 pm

BILLY,, I really like that tree !! i have read about them and think i would like to have one.. i don,t know if it would like west va. though.. nice tree that you have there,,the trunks don,t grow much in 20 years huh... take care john

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed May 23, 2012 6:16 pm

moyogijohn wrote:BILLY,, I really like that tree !! i have read about them and think i would like to have one.. i don,t know if it would like west va. though.. nice tree that you have there,,the trunks don,t grow much in 20 years huh... take care john

They are very tropical, mine spends the winter in a greenhouse. I drove thought West Virginia on 5/10 and 5/12 on I-77 mostly and then US 35.

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Re: Brazilian Rain Trees

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