ID an Old Porcelain Pot

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ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Gandalph on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:10 am

I acquired this pot recently and was wondering if anyone could provide an ID for me.

It is porcelain and measures 7 5/16" x 5 1/8" Outside, 6 1/2" x 4" Inside and is 2 1/8" high.

It looks like it has seen a lot of wiring in its' time as the porcelain on the inside has plenty of wear.

The only identifying mark is "Made In Japan" on the bottom.

Thanks in advance for looking










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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  CraftyTanuki on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:04 am

I'd be suspicious of the made in japan stamp... Question Question Question

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Poink88 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:13 am

CraftyTanuki wrote:I'd be suspicious of the made in japan stamp... Question Question Question
Me too. It also means it cannot be too old.

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:15 pm

Poink88 wrote:
CraftyTanuki wrote:I'd be suspicious of the made in japan stamp... Question Question Question
Me too. It also means it cannot be too old.


And made for the export market. High quality, serious bonsai pots aren't stamped "Made in Japan". But it's a fun pot for a quirky tree.

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  jrodriguez on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:57 pm

Poink88 wrote:
CraftyTanuki wrote:I'd be suspicious of the made in japan stamp... Question Question Question
Me too. It also means it cannot be too old.

Not quite accurate. If its from the occupied Japan era it might have some value.

Below, I encircled some dots that appear to be lead markings. Lead glazes have not been used for a while now, because of the health hazards. I think you should look into the actual history of this pot a bit further.


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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Russell Coker on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:39 pm

My best GUESS is that it would have to be post occupation. Most everything is marked "Made in Occupied Japan" is that's truly the case.

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  jrodriguez on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:01 pm

Russell Coker wrote:My best GUESS is that it would have to be post occupation. Most everything is marked "Made in Occupied Japan" is that's truly the case.


Occasionally, pieces made during occupations do not carry the "Occupied" mark. Even if other pieces in a set bear the mark, the unmarked piece's value is a fraction of a marked piece. Collectors consider it a period or vintage piece, but do not value it as an "Occupied Japan" piece.

Anyhow, I think this is the case with this pot. The lead inclusions, at least, might serve as a clue to its age. For certain, the pot is not new.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis




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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:36 pm

While I don't think it is the case with this pot, which I think was probable made around 1950, still over 60 years old.

Most of the bonsai pots I have that say "Made in Japan" were really made in China by one of the Japanese owned factories that have moved there.

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Gandalph on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:23 pm

"Below, I encircled some dots that appear to be lead markings. Lead glazes have not been used for a while now, because of the health hazards. I think you should look into the actual history of this pot a bit further."

Thanks for the reply and yes I do believe that the spots that you circled are lead inclusions.

Does anyone have an idea where I might be able to research this pot further?

Thanks all for the input thus far

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Orion on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:49 pm

You can check the database at www.phoenixbonsai.com

If you can't find the specifics, then I would email Robert Barran at the same website and I'd be willing to bet he can point you in the right direction.

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Ryan B on Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:37 pm

I'd agree with Billy on this one. Many pieces from the era aren't marked "Occupied." This looks to me to be overglaze enamel, probably Arita ware(which produced much export porcelain shipped through Imari). 1940s-1960s at the oldest. On the other hand, pots stamped as such are still being produced, and it really only takes a decade or 2 of constant use to develop a patina at this level.
Check out Gotheburg, may help you identify it. If its not there, its "probably" not valuable.
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Gandalph on Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:01 pm

Orion wrote:You can check the database at www.phoenixbonsai.com

If you can't find the specifics, then I would email Robert Barran at the same website and I'd be willing to bet he can point you in the right direction.

Thank you for suggesting Robert Barron.

I just received an email from him quote below:

"My best research so far is that the pot dates from either the period between 1921 and the early 1940s or, more likely, it is from the mid-fifties.
I haven't finished with this yet, and I will share anything new I find.
Personally, I would treasure this pot for its aesthetic value and have it be the home for a large-trunked flowering tree that is strong enough to match its bright colors."

I will post any further updates

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:32 pm

This pot originally did not have drainage holes; a previous owner drilled the holes which is why there are chips around the rim of the holes. It was probably made to display flowering bulbs. Cute pot!
Best,
Todd

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Re: ID an Old Porcelain Pot

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