Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

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Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Poink88 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:34 pm

I am in zone 8b (Texas) and my plants are starting to bud (newly collected elms, and red & trident maples). Do I need to protect these trees with new growth if we get freezing temps (say 30*F) or just leave them outside as usual?

Thank you.

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Fore on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:50 pm

Me too Poink88. I have some flowering quince seedlings that have put out 3/16" green buds already, and this is in Chicago for goodness sake! And another 48F today. Just don't know also how to deal with this.

Fore
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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  drgonzo on Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:51 pm

The unnaturally mild winter has upset many trees, I just read yesterday how the cherry blossoms in DC are swelling and thats weeks ahead of where they should be. Yes your trees will require protection as they have "woken up". Maybe all Y'all down south start sooner than we do no doubt. In my experience it behooves us to try to keep our trees as dormant as possible for as long as possible

I was out collecting Hop-hornbeam seedlings two days ago and noticed sugar Maple sap running down from a broken branch, Thats about a good month too early!
-Jay

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Feb 02, 2012 6:41 pm

While the sprouts are still buds and just as the leaves start to poke out, they will be pretty impervious to 30 degrees -- and probably even into the upper 20s so long as those temps don't start early in the evening.

When the leaves are fully out, they can be badly damaged by frost and freezing, and I'd recommend that the trees be covered or brought inside.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Poink88 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:00 pm

Thanks guys!

Our historical low average is low to mid 40's the next 6 weeks and though we still risk freezing temps...we will probably not have more than 2 before spring (and usually just for a few hours each). I can manage to move the plants in if it comes.

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Bob Pressler on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:09 pm

There's not much you can do. As Jim suggested if you expect a frost cover them with sheets or something- when your wife wants to kill you remind her of how much of an investment you're protecting. Very Happy ...and that's when the fight started Twisted Evil

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Poink88 on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:22 pm

Bob Pressler wrote:- when your wife wants to kill you remind her of how much of an investment you're protecting. Very Happy ...and that's when the fight started Twisted Evil
LOL. She knows already. You can only sneak in so many trees w/o getting noticed. I do not lie (just omit details when possible Very Happy ) but she asked me one time point blank so I have to tell her. She said a choice word but that is it...then told me not to complain when she and my daughter spends on something (she hinted Disney Land) pale

Between the books, pots, hand tools, power tools, plants, etc. I think she caught on. The good thing is that she and my daughter also joined the bonsai club! We actually did a dig together last Sunday and scheduled another this weekend Smile.

(BTW, your name was never mentioned LOL)

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Bob Pressler on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:34 pm

If you guys go to Disney Land you have to come visit-I'm about an hour away.

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  JimLewis on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:41 pm

LOL. She knows already. You can only sneak in so many trees w/o getting noticed. I do not lie (just omit details when possible Very Happy ) but she asked me one time point blank so I have to tell her. She said a choice word but that is it...then told me not to complain when she and my daughter spends on something (she hinted Disney Land) pale

I no longer spend much (anything???) on bonsai, but back in the day, I could always point at Jackie's Horses.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  coh on Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:12 pm

drgonzo wrote:The unnaturally mild winter has upset many trees, I just read yesterday how the cherry blossoms in DC are swelling and thats weeks ahead of where they should be. Yes your trees will require protection as they have "woken up". Maybe all Y'all down south start sooner than we do no doubt. In my experience it behooves us to try to keep our trees as dormant as possible for as long as possible

I was out collecting Hop-hornbeam seedlings two days ago and noticed sugar Maple sap running down from a broken branch, Thats about a good month too early!
-Jay

I've been moving trees around all winter, trying to keep them dormant. Trees that were in the garage have gone back outside (under mulch), and trees that were in the unheated mud room are now in the garage. So far only the Chinese quince has started to show green buds. It's been quite ridiculous...the other night it was 55 deg at 2 am! Normal high temp is 31...

Looks to be trending a little colder up here, but still above normal for the next week or so.

Just hope we don't get "paid back" with a cold, wet spring...

coh
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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  marcus watts on Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:44 am

Hi,
I'm 9b so quite similar to Texas - the early maples and tridents have been opening for 2 weeks now and suddenly we have -4 to -5 night time temps and day highs of 0 ! My shohin trident and special kyohime are in the garage with a grow lamp - the others are in a glass greenhouse sat on thick polystyrene sheeeting. As they are maples the first set of leaves that open are bound to get damaged before May but luckily another set will sprout as long as the tree is healthy and the first leaves remain mostly intact for about 8 weeks. This will enable the new buds to form at the leaf base. Our tridents in refinement here are defoliated 3 or 4 times a year so loosing the first leaves isnt too drastic.

The main concern is not the buds but the cut roots on trees that HAD to be repotted this year - they are better kept frost free.

good luck,

Marcus

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:45 pm

JimLewis wrote:While the sprouts are still buds and just as the leaves start to poke out, they will be pretty impervious to 30 degrees -- and probably even into the upper 20s so long as those temps don't start early in the evening.

When the leaves are fully out, they can be badly damaged by frost and freezing, and I'd recommend that the trees be covered or brought inside.

So Jim, I have mine in a overwinter hoop house. Are you saying my Quinces will be alright with buds as long as I keep it above say 28F? Or I can bring it inside my unfinished basement where it's in the low 60's I'd guess?

Thanks for bringing this up Poink88, I've been worried and not knowing what to do.
Chris

Fore
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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:09 pm

I have never had a problem with BUDS in freezing weather. only sprouted buds. But then, I don't live in Chicago, though I'd think they'd be fine in a hoop house.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:15 pm

Thank You Jim! Much appreciated! At least now I got one less load on my mind Very Happy
Chris

Fore
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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  drgonzo on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:04 pm

Fore wrote:
So Jim, I have mine in a overwinter hoop house. Are you saying my Quinces will be alright with buds as long as I keep it above say 28F? Or I can bring it inside my unfinished basement where it's in the low 60's I'd guess?

Thanks for bringing this up Poink88, I've been worried and not knowing what to do.
Chris

I am a four season gardener, using greenhouses, cold frames, and hoops. In my opinion the reason your quince have sprouted so early is BECAUSE you have them in a hoop house in which daytime temps on a sunny day can easily rise into the 80's the humidity also can rise dramatically. These temperatures over say a week of sunny daytime weather can easily begin to break the dormancy of woody perennials. Indeed I use this very effect every year to cheat winter and give myself an early spring with my lettuce and spinach seedlings. At night in the hoop house temps can fall off dramatically eventually near to where the outside temperature is and the only source of warmth at that point is whatever solar heating the exposed ground in the hoop house managed to absorb during the day.

Additionally the humidity in the hoop house that has accumulated on a sunny day begins to collect on the cooler surfaces, the plastic sheeting interior surface, branches or foliage as the interior dew point drops. As soon as the temperature drops to 32F in the enclosure you will get frost. It is primarily for this reason why venting a greenhouse or poly tunnel on a sunny day becomes so important when we have extremes between daytime and nighttime temperatures as is so common in springtime in the colder northerly zones. Its a misconception to think you can't get frost damage in a hoop house or greenhouse!

With that said I would suggest if you want to keep your quinces in your poly tunnel I would use a frost blanket draped gently overtop of them to prevent them from getting toasted. Even though Quince is very hardy, new extension grown in the warm daytime temperatures will be susceptible to frost.

-Jay

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Re: Trees starting to bud already...is this a problem?

Post  Fore on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Thanks Jay for chiming in. I actually have a vent to come on when humidity gets high. In addition, I'm able to keep the door open on these warmer days so there's not too much diff. b/w daytime and nighttime temps. I also have a thermometer in there, and it's only gotten over 50 on a few days. So I think I'm good.

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