American elm bonsai

View previous topic View next topic Go down

American elm bonsai

Post  Mnmbjc on Sat Feb 15, 2014 6:51 pm

Is this tree similar to other elm trees? Can I apply the same techniques that one would use on a Chinese elm? If not what are the differences because there isn't much information on this tree. One specific question would be leaf reducing techniques and the differences between the other trees. Thanks in advance for any info.

Mnmbjc
Member


Back to top Go down

American Elm

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:50 am

American elm is used for bonsai. Are you old enough to have seen American elm growing? If not, look for pictures. The growth habit is quite different from other elms, and there are those of us who believe it should be respected in bonsai. American elm grows in a majestic vase habit, a form of broom style. Although it is bigger and coarser than other bonsai elms, the leaves will reduce to some extent. Contact Dave Easterbrook, phone 450-686-5059 or David DeGroot, 253-924-5206 for more details.
Iris


Last edited by bonsaisr on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:00 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Add phone number)

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Russell Coker on Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:47 pm

American elms are much more like zelkovas than Chinese elms. Actually, they can be hard to tell apart! Anyway, that's how I treat mine.

R

Russell Coker
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Zach Smith on Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:25 pm

Mnmbjc wrote:Is this tree similar to other elm trees? Can I apply the same techniques that one would use on a Chinese elm? If not what are the differences because there isn't much information on this tree. One specific question would be leaf reducing techniques and the differences between the other trees. Thanks in advance for any info.
American elms make great bonsai, and the species is probably the world champ for leaf size reduction: from 5 inches in nature to 1/4-inch with diligent pinching and pruning. Very underutilized for bonsai, most likely because of the Dutch elm disease stigma.

Zach

Zach Smith
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Oliver Muscio on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:23 pm

I agree regarding leaf reduction. I have a small elm (ca. 10" or so) that I collected as a seedling. I was told by a local university that it was a winged elm (although its twigs had no wings). Under bonsai culture, its leaves stayed fairly small, comparable to a true winged elm I have, but not as small as a Chinese elm. However, when I let a shoot grow out to develop a new apex, the large size of the resulting leaves showed me that it really was not a winged elm, but rather most likely an American elm. These leaves were MUCH larger than the leaves I had on the tree when I kept it pruned.
Oliver

Oliver Muscio
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Oliver Muscio on Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:29 pm

I agree regarding leaf reduction. I have a small elm (ca. 10" or so) that I collected as a seedling. I was told by a local university that it was a winged elm (although its twigs had no wings). Under bonsai culture, its leaves stayed fairly small, comparable to a true winged elm I have, but not as small as a Chinese elm. However, when I let a shoot grow out to develop a new apex, the large size of the resulting leaves showed me that it really was not a winged elm, but rather most likely an American elm. These leaves were MUCH larger than the leaves I had on the tree when I kept it pruned.
Oliver

Oliver Muscio
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  steveb on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:03 pm

I bought what was labelled as a water elm at a bonsai nursery this weekend.  Is this the same thing as an American Elm?  

Also, I plan on planting it in the ground for a few years but, when potted, should I use my inorganic aggregate that I use with success for Chinese Elms or something more organic?  I read where they like rich moist soils in their native environment. 

Thanks.

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Zach Smith on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:10 pm

steveb wrote:I bought what was labelled as a water elm at a bonsai nursery this weekend.  Is this the same thing as an American Elm?  

Also, I plan on planting it in the ground for a few years but, when potted, should I use my inorganic aggregate that I use with success for Chinese Elms or something more organic?  I read where they like rich moist soils in their native environment. 

Thanks.
American elm (Ulmus Americana) and water-elm (Planera aquatica) are definitely not the same thing. Water-elm is not picky regarding soil. Just keep them moist, well fed and give plenty of sun. They love summer heat.

If you can post a photo of the leaves, I'll be glad to give you a positive identification.

Zach

Zach Smith
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  steveb on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:29 pm

Thanks!


cat




Last edited by steveb on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  steveb on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:30 pm

Thanks!





steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  steveb on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:34 pm

Sorry about the pics. The dropped right when I posted and I can't edit. Thanks for you help.

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Zach Smith on Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:52 pm

Those don't look like water-elm leaves to me.  Definitely not American elm.  Here's what water-elm leaves look like:


I'm not sure what you have.  The irregular sawtooths reminds me of winged elm, but I don't see any wings on your tree.

Sorry I couldn't give you a positive ID.  Maybe someone else can chime in.

Zach

Zach Smith
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Oliver Muscio on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:06 pm

In addition to lacking wings on the twigs, the sawtooth edges on the leaves are much coarser that what I see on my winged elms (ulmus alata). The leaves almost look like zelkova, don't they? To add to the confusion, I have read that American elms (Ulmus americana) are also sometimes called "water elms". Another reason to avoid use of common names.
Oliver

Oliver Muscio
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Zach Smith on Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:14 pm

Oliver Muscio wrote:In addition to lacking wings on the twigs, the sawtooth edges on the leaves are much coarser that what I see on my winged elms (ulmus alata).  The leaves almost look like zelkova, don't they? To add to the confusion, I have read that American elms (Ulmus americana) are also sometimes called "water elms".  Another reason to avoid use of common names.
Oliver
Good point. Maybe you have a zelkova. I don't work with them, so can't confirm.

Zach

Zach Smith
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  DougB on Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:13 pm

Are there some sources for true American Elms that can be developed for bonsai. Expensive?

DougB
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Zach Smith on Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:34 pm

DougB wrote:Are there some sources for true American Elms that can be developed for bonsai.  Expensive?
I have stock from time to time.  Sold out till next year.

Zach

Zach Smith
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  M. Frary on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:56 pm

I also will be collecting some for sale too. Not too awful expensive. Why don't you go out and see if you can find any living wild where you live and collect a couple. These and hawthorns are some of the easiest trees to collect and live.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  steveb on Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:28 am

Thanks for your help.  I will compare it to a Zelkova in my yard if it ever quits raining...

steveb
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  M. Frary on Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:37 am

Russell Coker wrote:American elms are much more like zelkovas than Chinese elms.  Actually, they can be hard to tell apart!  Anyway, that's how I treat mine.

R
Are you sure you have an American elm? Because they look nothing like zelkova. They have craggy,fissure bark. Big dark green leaves if left to grow unchecked. And if left to grow unchecked will grow a 4 foot leader in a growing season right after collection and a severe chop up here in zone 4. I'm not trying to be contentious in any way.
American elms are more like elms. I have quite a few of all kinds. Chinese varieties. And Siberian elm. And American of course. And I treat them as such. All are way tougher than zelkova which I've had but they can't take the cold here.
American and Siberian being the toughest. I've heard tell of Siberian elms dropping branches but haven't experienced it yet.
I also get small leaves just from pruning for ramification. No need to defoliate these trees. I'm going to defoliate one next year though just to see what happens.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  DougB on Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:27 pm

Thanks for the "go out and look" thought Frary, but I will have to leave that to those who are not disabled. Just like Jim at our age we often are lucky to get up out of our chairs to tend our trees. And of course do not plant seeds -- just not enough time left. Not sarcastic just reminding folks that not all are physically able. And I look forward to being able to purchase true American Elm.

DougB
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  M. Frary on Tue Nov 10, 2015 3:08 am

DougB wrote:Thanks for the "go out and look" thought Frary, but I will have to leave that to those who are not disabled.  Just like Jim at our age we often are lucky to get up out of our chairs to tend our trees.  And of course do not plant seeds -- just not enough time left.  Not sarcastic just reminding folks that not all are physically able.  And I look forward to being able to purchase true American Elm.
Sorry didn't know. Truly.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  DougB on Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:40 pm

No offense.

DougB
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  M. Frary on Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:31 pm

DougB wrote:No offense.
Phew!

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: American elm bonsai

Post  Sponsored content Today at 9:52 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum