Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

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Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  john jones on Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:38 am

A co-worker asked me if defoliating a Podocarpus macrophyllus would decease the size of the leaves.

I have no idea. Maybe someone else knows?

TIA!

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defoliating a Podocarpus

Post  Robert Taylor on Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:59 am

I did a partial defoliation of a regular podocarpus many years ago. I would remove the longest leaves and wait for new growth to appear. Then I'd remove the second longest needles and so on.  It worked well.  Needles reduced to 1/2 size.  I traded the tree to another Buffalo club member when I reduced my indoor collection.  I didn't keep records about it though.  From memory I think I started the process in February.

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  john jones on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:16 am

Robert Taylor wrote:I did a partial defoliation of a regular podocarpus many years ago. I would remove the longest leaves and wait for new growth to appear. Then I'd remove the second longest needles and so on.  It worked well.  Needles reduced to 1/2 size.  I traded the tree to another Buffalo club member when I reduced my indoor collection.  I didn't keep records about it though.  From memory I think I started the process in February.
Thanks. I'll pass this along.

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  JimLewis on Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:16 am

I routinely remove long leaves on mine. I've had it now for more than 13 years and the leaves are down to about 2 inches (or so). I think, however, that general bonsai culture is the major reason.

I've had my large one for 6-7 years now, and it still has 6 inch leaves.

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Podocarpus macrophyllus

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Nov 07, 2013 3:15 pm

Huh? confused I have a Podocarpus I bought at an auction last June. I've just been letting it grow to build up its strength. The leaves are barely an inch long. What have I got? Question 
Iris

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  JimLewis on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:56 pm

Probably P. m. 'Makai'

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Podocarpus macrophyllus

Post  bonsaisr on Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:57 pm

I don't think 'Maki' is listed as having different foliage. I did a little Googling and checked my tree. My oldest leaves are under two inches, about 4.5 cm. My new leaves from this year are under one inch, say 2 cm. According to the literature, Podocarpus prefers full sun. Those excessively long leaves are due to insufficient light. Mine was out all summer in what passes for full sun on the 43rd Parallel.
Podocarpus is said to back bud very easily. Just keep pinching & pruning to reduce leaf size.
I would NOT defoliate a conifer. You would probably kill it.
Iris

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  john jones on Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:24 am

bonsaisr wrote:I don't think 'Maki' is listed as having different foliage. I did a little Googling and checked my tree. My oldest leaves are under two inches, about 4.5 cm. My new leaves from this year are under one inch, say 2 cm. According to the literature, Podocarpus prefers full sun. Those excessively long leaves are due to insufficient light. Mine was out all summer in what passes for full sun on the 43rd Parallel.
Podocarpus is said to back bud very easily. Just keep pinching & pruning to reduce leaf size.
I would NOT defoliate a conifer. You would probably kill it.
Iris
Got it. Pinch and prune. Full sun when available. No defoliating. Thanks to all for the prompt replies.

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:46 am

bonsaisr wrote:I don't think 'Maki' is listed as having different foliage. I did a little Googling and checked my tree. My oldest leaves are under two inches, about 4.5 cm. My new leaves from this year are under one inch, say 2 cm. According to the literature, Podocarpus prefers full sun. Those excessively long leaves are due to insufficient light. Mine was out all summer in what passes for full sun on the 43rd Parallel.
Podocarpus is said to back bud very easily. Just keep pinching & pruning to reduce leaf size.
I would NOT defoliate a conifer. You would probably kill it.
Iris
I agree fully.  Defoliating a Podocarpus will definately kill it.

I do know though, from experience in landscaping planting of Podopcarpus, and speding a lot of time in the Forests,  that when they are small they definately prefer shade.  Small Yellowoods always grows in the forests and are always in shade till they become the 40m odd specimens, then only do they extend over the canopies of the forest trees.  That's  also the reason for the very dark leave...losts of chlorophyll  for low light...

I always plant a Yellowood together with what I call a 'chaser' tree, like Virgilia oroboides,  The Virgilia grows very very fast, providing shade for the Podocarpus, and when the Podocarpus gets to 5 m height the Virgilia will fall over...and voila...a big yellow wood in the sun...  

Here we have 4 different species.  P falcatus, P latifolius, P henkelii and the one with smallest blueish leaves P elongatus.  In All of them, the leaves are much bigger that macrophyllus.

Podocapus, Yellowoods  is the highest (up to 46 m) and most protected tree in South Africa,  It produces a wood without any knots!!  Today there are only a very few of these giants standing in the forest,  the rest where chopped down and shipped to England to be used for sleepers for the railway tracks!, when SA was still a British colony...  O' the good ol'days  affraid Wink 

Love and light

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:00 pm

You may find this helpful: http://www.bonsai-bci.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=220&Itemid=115

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Podocarpus macrophyllus

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:48 pm

I also found this article helpful. http://www.bonsaisocietyofmiami.org/articles/Podocarpus%20by%20Vladimir%20Foursa.pdf
But I would like to know when is the best time to prune & repot if the tree is being grown under lights for the winter. In the absence of other information, I will assume they should be done when it starts growing. Mine was recently brought in and is still resting.
Iris

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Mon Nov 11, 2013 5:20 pm

I personally would replant it in very early spring. Even in a mild winter is better than mid summer.  Transplanting a Podocarpus in mid summer is playing Russian roulette...Their capillary action is very slow.  They don't really like root disturbance...Again this is what I know from my own experience.  

Transplanting a large specimen tree almost every time ends up in tears and death.  They will take a year to die, and you think wow it made it, and then one morning is it is brown and you are white....pale 

Seedlings must Always be in the shade.  From 4 to 5 years old you can start to reform it to the sun.  I would not ever, even put a transplanted Podocarpus in full sun.  Remember  they are forest dwellers, and forest dwellers prefer shade when small.

Sorry Iris, I just chipped in, I didn't know who you asked.  

Love and light

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  JimLewis on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:18 pm

I have to beg to differ, Andre.  This was a 50-year-old, six-foot-tall tree at my daughter's house in St. Petersburg Beach, FLA when I dug it up 10 years or so ago.  It had never seen a night colder than the low 30s F.  I dug it at Christmas, and moved it to N. Florida where it immediately fced temperatures in the 30s and 40s all day for a couple of months; I protected it with plastic when a freeze was in the offing.  

Just dug:  



That's my then 2 year old granddaughter; she's now almost 12.

This is the next summer:



It has survived the move even further up into the cold here in North Carolina, although it is smaller by a lot because of a near-fatal bout with big, black carpenter ants.  It has been transplanted into smaller pots at least three times.  





This tree is now much too large for me to handle -- or even move -- and it will be passed off to someone else soon.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Mitch Thomas on Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:35 pm

I agree on the repotting/collecting of prodacarpus. I have collected several from gardens with no foliage at all and they always have pushed new growth from old wood. Some trees over 30' tall reduced to a 24" stumps. When I style them I often remove all the foliage except the terminal bud. When the tree pushes new leaf I shorten the branch as needed.Maybe I'm just lucky?
Good luck!

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Podocarpus macrophyllus

Post  bonsaisr on Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:49 am

Just proves what I learned 40 years ago from orchids, and 20 years ago from bonsai. Plants behave differently in different environments. The ones we usually grow as pot plants or bonsai are those that are the most adaptable. However, they will adapt differently in different situations, certainly on different continents. The moral is to listen to others with experience, but try especially to get information from those who have grown the plant in similar conditions to yours. I read what people in Florida have to say about tropicals, but much of it is irrelevant to growing under fluorescent lights in the North.
Iris

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:23 am

JimLewis wrote:I have to beg to differ, Andre.  This was a 50-year-old, six-foot-tall tree at my daughter's house in St. Petersburg Beach, FLA when I dug it up 10 years or so ago.  It had never seen a night colder than the low 30s F.  I dug it at Christmas, and moved it to N. Florida where it immediately fced temperatures in the 30s and 40s all day for a couple of months; I protected it with plastic when a freeze was in the offing.  



It has survived the move even further up into the cold here in North Carolina, although it is smaller by a lot because of a near-fatal bout with big, black carpenter ants.  It has been transplanted into smaller pots at least three times.  


Dear Jim

In my defence ...I can't see where I differed form you.  If you transplanted it in December, I gather that you live in USA, North Carolina is in America? I don't know what means FLA?    Well December should be then mid winter.  That's what I said,  Mid winter is better than summer.

I also didn't say that it can't be done, I said it is risky, and the bigger the tree the more risk. Meaning ground specimens.

That you tree is only 6 foot and 50 years old is incredible slow growth rate, and not normal. It was probably standing in the Sun. Right? That you had a moderate success transplanting with the tree is a miracle. And you have done very well... IMHO.

Love and light.

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:33 am

Mitch Thomas wrote:I agree on the repotting/collecting of prodacarpus. I have collected several from gardens with no foliage at all
Interesting.  Why would a Podocarpus not have leaves on?

Love and light

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:59 am

Andre',

before you have a hiccup, please read through this, has all the U.S. state contractions , as in FLa /Fl =Florida

http://www.infoplease.com/states.html

Please excuse them, they are a very young set of states, and just realising that not everyone knows something about a New World Country [ teasing, no nukes please, or I will send a big bottomed Trinidadian woman to sit on you - not to you Andre']
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:34 pm

hahahahaha

Darling Khaimraj , you obviously have a lot of time....these f#'/&* rich people.....

the last thing on my list today is studying the USA states and their abbreviations...

Actually its never going to be on my list, I rather learn the latin names of the body parts  of the duck billed egg laying mammal platypus.

And yes send 'em the big mamma...  and yes you do get the odd mammal that lays eggs....who knew?  cyclops

FL here means an condom.

FLa is custard.... mmmmmmmm A condom and custard..... You dirty minded bastards, what the hell does that have to do with bonsai.....

Love and light

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Mitch Thomas on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:17 am

Andre
The prodocarpus I collect are often 6"to 8" in diameter and 20 to 30 feet tall, most have little to no lower branches. That's why there is no folliage on the stumps. The stumps pushes dormant buds from old wood and that's where the tree is shaped from. The bulk of the stump is carved and tapered into dead wood. They are slow growers so it takes at least 3 seasons to have any branches to work with.

Good luck
Mitch

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Andre Beaurain on Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:33 pm

Dear Mitch

I'm very surprised.

But as the very wise Iris stated that in different continents plants behave differently. That's why we all have problems with alien invaders.....

Now my fellow Africans, don't you all now run out and behead the first Yellowood you see in the forest, because that bird ain't gonna fly....

Love and light

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Leo Schordje on Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:55 pm

For what it is worth, I have not had the good fortune to visit South Africa, yet, but a trip to your beautiful country is on my "Bucket List".
I did visit Malaysia, and that experience with tropical, equatorial sunlight leads me to this thought.

Full sun in Florida, or South Carolina is no where near as intense as in the equatorial countries. Much of South Africa is a wet-dry climate, some areas are very dry deserts. So when Andre speaks of full sun, it is likely 25% or more, more intense than full sun in the South Carolina. If Jim is near the Blue Ridge Mountains, or the Smokey Mountains, there is a nearly constant haze that give both regions their names. This haze cuts the total flux of sunlight another few percentages. Full sun in the north might be around 5000 to 9000 foot candles of light, where full sun in the tropics would be 10,000 foot candles at low elevations, and over 14,000 at high elevations. I know Foot Candles, is an older, now considered out of date measurement, Lux being the one that should be used, but I was learning about photography some 30 years ago, and that is the unit of measure I can remember how to use. I've long ago abandoned photography, but I did learn to grow orchids under lights. Most orchids considered full sun requiring grow and bloom in 5000 fc light. I mostly do winter hardy trees, so I don't grow more than a couple trees under lights. (Ficus forgive many, many less than optimal conditions.)

SO the point is, our experience in the Dull, Great Snowy White North, does not contradict Andre's point, he being in the Bright, Sunny South. In the eastern and northern parts of the USA, we could not give "full sun" by SA standards, it simply is not the bright up here. In the western USA, as elevation increases so does the intensity of the sunlight. Denver, at 5800 feet (roughly 1700 meters) is considerably brighter than Chicago at 625 feet.

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Mitch Thomas on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:01 am

Alien invaders? Did I miss some thing?

Mitch

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

Post  Neli on Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:09 am

I must say That one thing was not taken into account here. Different vaiety podocarpus reacts differently to defoliation and back budding. Some just dont back bud when chopped or even airlayeed...if there is not foliage bellow. Some do back bud. I have made this mistake so I know...and I am trying o graft branches now.

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Alien invaders

Post  Mitch Thomas on Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:49 pm

I'm not here to beat my chest, only to try and pass my self gained knowledge in my bonsai experience, limited as it may be. It seems to me if you can keep a specie in bonsai culture and it also grows in your area in landscapes you should be able to collect them. Although one must have skills in doing so. Different grow zones will make theses skills alter.

Here is a Prodacarpus Mac I collected two seasons ago. I'm sorry I can't find the collection photos but it didn't have any foliage on it. All the foliage is new growth on old wood. So please if you have the skill don't let it keep you from collecting them.


Putting someone down to make yourself look good is being cheep!

Mitch

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Re: Podocarpus macrophyllus and defoliation.

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