Hawthorn Group

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Hawthorn Group

Post  Peter Thorne on Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:35 pm

Hi guys, I need some help on deciding the best style for this group. When I collected it, 2 years ago, the initial attraction was the curved trunk on the right hand side. When I got it home i found the centre of the curved trunk to be rotten and so it became a natural hollow. Unfortunately this curved trunk has now died. The tree is about 1M tall and i want to reduce it but I'm not sure how much. I would also like to incorporate the dead curved trunk in the design, but i'm not sure how best to do this. I am not very good with photoshop but I wondered if some of the Virtual Wizards out there would like to make some suggestions.
Any suggestions would be appriciated.
Cheers

Seen from the Front


Seen from the Back


A close up of the hollow trunk

Peter Thorne
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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  bonsaimeister on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:41 pm

Hi Peter,

With that last name, I guess you need a few hawthorn bonsai in your collection. Very Happy

Here is a crappy virtual I made with a free online editor. There are many options, but a tall, elegant tree might be nice. Certainly it seems the stovepipe trunk must go.

Best regards,
BM


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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Auballagh on Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:15 am

A nice virtual bonsaimeister - just wrong application..... Neutral

Peter Thorne wrote: Unfortunately this curved trunk has now died.

The curved trunk is a pretty tragic loss for this group. The curved trunk definitely provides the interest for this group to make a pretty nice bonsai relatively easy to achieve with just two trunks. That tall, straight trunk on the left-side tree, is a definite problem. Short of looking for a better Hawthorne tree to replace the tall straight one in the group..... I would chop that stick-straight tree down pretty far and grow out a new apex from a lower branch. That is a pretty drastic measure though, and it will take a long time to develop,

Auballagh
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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  sunip on Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:10 am

Hello Peter,
Are you sure the curved trunk died?
I would give the tree another year, it is only two years in a pot and it is known i believe, that they can
give a dead impression but come into leave the next year.
Did you ask local expert advise?
Sunip Wink

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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  giufo on Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:35 am

Sunip, the curved trunk is really dead! it hasn't any gems while the other trunk (in the same plant) have them...

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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Peter Thorne on Fri Mar 29, 2013 7:30 am

Hi Guys thanks for the comments. There is no question that the curved tree on the right is dead. The real question is whether we could use it as a part of the composition.
I decided to have a go at a virtual image - I'm not great at this but you will get the general idea.
I think the left hand side needs to be shorter and i propose to hollow out the trunk todraw your eye away from the fact that the sides are dead parrallel.
Does any one have any better ideas?

Peter Thorne
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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Guest on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:07 am

Hi Peter.
how about something like this....




Slimmer trunks like your tree have can easily be transformed into a "believable" windswept,,,,and it is rare to see in your region a windswept design, I believe your tree is a good candidate for something different. Don't force it to become a typical tree, because the trunk don't suggest it to be that way.

regards,
jun Smile


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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  bonsaimeister on Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:44 am

Here is another option.


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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Auballagh on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:13 pm

Hi Peter,
it looks like they're having a really hard time letting that Hawthorne in your group with the curved trunk go. Rolling Eyes
Unfortunately, that was the most compelling tree in this little group, and it certainly would have made things a lot easier to design the composition if it were - actually - still alive.
Moving on....
I like the direction you illustrated in the future design with the virtual you put up. As you've shown with the virt, I also believe that severely shortening the long, straight tree will almost definitely be a must. Plus, I would strongly consider (eventually) carving that shortened trunk out, to provide a interesting counterpoint to the dead tree as it's opposite. And lastly, it might be beneficial to bring these 3 trunks in together even more. That is, tighten up the design to the point where it could almost be the same tree with three trunks coming up, as a kind of really beat up, old tree in a clump growing style.
One thing good about Hawthorne trees, is that once you get those somewhat finicky roots established and the health back into the tree after collection from the ground, the branches and foliage on these things are almost 'bomb-proof' to style and work with. Good luck with this project! It looks like it will be a long termer to develop, but it seems like it has a lot of potential to be really nice someday. Smile

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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Guest on Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:16 pm

Auballagh wrote:Hi Peter,
it looks like they're having a really hard time letting that Hawthorne in your group with the curved trunk go. Rolling Eyes
Smile

Not really, if it is dead its dead....another option with the same theme.




....I also believe cutting the tree too much will just waste the trees true potential. Usually (but it is not a rule) compact tree designs were done with massive trees with massive trunk, mostly single trunk. IMHO this tree is expressing a different form other than being massive and compact. There is some elegance in this 3 trunks. It is saying out loud- "I am a tree with tree trunks (or two)", we just have to follow what the materials are trying to say or to convey to us, and use it as our starting point for future design. Most of the time failure in design happens in the initial stage of the styling by forcing our will and preconceive idea on the raw material on what we believe a bonsai should look like.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:50 pm

jun wrote:Not really, if it is dead its dead....another option with the same theme.



This is exactly what I was thinking. That tree couldn't handle the wind and succumbed.

Very nice drawing Jun!!!

Keep us posted Peter. I'm looking forward to see which route you choose.

Have a great weekend!!!
Sam

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Re: Hawthorn Group

Post  Guest on Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:03 am

Thanks Sam! that's the idea and the story I want to tell with this group of trees. That's why chopping the trunk off and creating a regular bonsai with compact dome design or turning it into a regular bonsai without stating what the dead trunk is for, (IMHO) doesn't make sense. Every shari, every jin in bonsai should be coherent with the design. We don't make deadwoods because we just like them, this is just my opinion in the design principles.


regards,
jun Smile

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Re: Hawthorn Group

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