Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  BillsBayou on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:31 pm

Recently purchased a green mountain maple from Joe Day. It's a nice enough little tree:



What concerns me is that I don't know maples enough to know where leaf buds will break. I know they'll break on all the nodes, but what about the internodes?

These two photos show a couple of the fairly long internodes that concern me. With a bald cypress, I would just wire out the branch and wait for buds to pop. Then just remove the ones I don't like. However, with maples, I'm out of my element. In the future, will any buds break between these nodes, in areas indicated by the white arrows? If so, how far into the future will that take? If I cut off the terminal nodes, the entire internode dies back to the previous node, right?



BillsBayou
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  fiona on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:40 pm

Moved to questions

_________________
"Espouse elucidation"
_____________________________________

my website

fiona
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  Just Mike on Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:58 pm

maples will only form buds at the nodes...they are easy to spot on maples...their habit makes them a bit of a challenge because of this...since they like to send out long shoots (especially when young), the length between nodes can be 6 inches or so, which of course is no good for bonsai...you have to prune them before they get too long (see walter palls article on hedge pruning that can be found here in the top threads section)...i have found its good to be creative with sacrifice branches (or sacrifice shoots in this case) to help fight this habit during developement...example: say you have a couple buds break at the same node...you can let one grow wild, but keep the other in check for correct node spcing...if you trim both, often the tree will just send out more shoots with long internode length...so, of you let the tree do what it wants with one of the branches, the other can be kept in check...again, this is especially true on younger trees...in the case of your tree...the internodes you are woried about i would let grow wild for the branch thickening effect at the same time keeping the other shoots in check to make sure the length between nodes doesnt get out of control...hope that made sense.

Just Mike
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  Just Mike on Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:00 pm

this article explains things pretty well...what i was calling a sacrifice shoot...this article refers to as a "sap drawer"...same concept though...hope it helps

http://bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/AcerPalmatumAdvancedGuide.htm

Just Mike
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  BillsBayou on Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:20 pm

Thanks for the reply. I believe I see what I need to do now.

I like the general structure of the tree. I'm ready to do some refining.

Let me know if I can do all of the following:
1) A couple of places have 3 or more branches coming from the same point. I want to reduce to 2.

2) Cut long internodes back to earlier node points. This may mean removing more than one internode.
That is, if I have TRUNK == Node A == Node B == Node C
And the distance from Node A to Node B is too long, I'll be removing back to Node A

3) Wire branches.

I think I need to wait for the Spring growth to push out before wiring. Otherwise, I'll be re-wiring in a month or suffer wire scars.

BillsBayou
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  leatherback on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:22 pm

YUp, all sounds fine. The only thing to keep in mind is that acers have a tendency to bleed quite badly in early spring. So do not prune to deep (thick branches) and/or let the plant go reasonably dry before cuttting. Or keep from pruning thicker branches untill winter. (Of course you can just take the risk and prune all now and probably not suffer any major problems).

Wiring works easiest when the tree is without leaves.

leatherback
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  marie1uk on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:04 pm

This could be a good tree to learn on ... maybe later you'll decide to get some taper down low.

See these resources:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zdEjZ-MiJU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KauXPxmiT5c

HTH

marie1uk
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  timatkinson on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:51 pm

Let me talk a little bit about the third part of your 3-part plan for this (or other) maple trees. If you wait to wire a maple such as this till it has pushed new growth, you will severely damage that new growth which is very tender and very brittle. If you want to wire, now is the time when the branches are bare with most visibility of structure, but I don't think you will ever avoid scarring if you wire at any time on maples. I personally dislike the degree of scarring some maple trees exhibit. Of course, some trident maple styles utilize spiral scars as part of the style...I am not drawn to that style either. This doesn't mean you don't have tools in your arsenal with which to shape your trees. Use wire tie-downs to bring branches into shape, utilizing some sort of pad to prevent scars where the wires would otherwise cut in. Use bamboo or wood splints to shape and separate branches. Learn to graft both roots and branches (very easy, very simple actually). Observe and learn the way the tree pushes buds so you can control where you want growth to be. This will be a fine tree. Don't worry about mistakes, often-times the tree will right your (wrong), and if that fails, mistakes over the years can take on the whimsy that we think only nature can provide. Good luck. Warm regards - tim

timatkinson
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  Just Mike on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:52 pm

leatherback wrote:YUp, all sounds fine. The only thing to keep in mind is that acers have a tendency to bleed quite badly in early spring. So do not prune to deep (thick branches) and/or let the plant go reasonably dry before cuttting. Or keep from pruning thicker branches untill winter. (Of course you can just take the risk and prune all now and probably not suffer any major problems).

Wiring works easiest when the tree is without leaves.

yes...this...wire in fall right after leaf drop...thats also a good time to hard prune...there is also a period after the initial spring flush when you will notice the tree slows down...that period is also a good time to prune...from what i can, the parts you are talking about removing arent major branches or anything, so i dont think excessive bleeding will be an issue...so in this case, you can probably do it now and it wouldnt hurt the tree...but...you may notice that the node you cut back to will send out new shoots with long internodal lengths...i think that is also one of the reasons some people like to prune in fall...if you choose to prune now, i wouldnt worry too much because if the tree ends up with long internodes, you can always cut back to a node in fall and re-grow...just my opinion.

Just Mike
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  Just Mike on Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:57 pm

timatkinson wrote:Let me talk a little bit about the third part of your 3-part plan for this (or other) maple trees. If you wait to wire a maple such as this till it has pushed new growth, you will severely damage that new growth which is very tender and very brittle. If you want to wire, now is the time when the branches are bare with most visibility of structure, but I don't think you will ever avoid scarring if you wire at any time on maples. I personally dislike the degree of scarring some maple trees exhibit. Of course, some trident maple styles utilize spiral scars as part of the style...I am not drawn to that style either. This doesn't mean you don't have tools in your arsenal with which to shape your trees. Use wire tie-downs to bring branches into shape, utilizing some sort of pad to prevent scars where the wires would otherwise cut in. Use bamboo or wood splints to shape and separate branches. Learn to graft both roots and branches (very easy, very simple actually). Observe and learn the way the tree pushes buds so you can control where you want growth to be. This will be a fine tree. Don't worry about mistakes, often-times the tree will right your (wrong), and if that fails, mistakes over the years can take on the whimsy that we think only nature can provide. Good luck. Warm regards - tim

i like this advice too...i keep saying it, and i dont think im crazy...but i dont think maples like to be wired at all...im sure some of it is my skill level as far as wiring goes, but i have always ended up with atleast some minor scaring...now, i stick to clip and grow and guy wires...guy wires work pretty well especially if you attach them to a part of the limb you plan on removing later anyway, just in case it ends up cutting in a bit...

Just Mike
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  leatherback on Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:07 am

[quote="Just Mike"]
timatkinson wrote:..but i dont think maples like to be wired at all...im sure some of it is my skill level as far as wiring goes, but i have always ended up with atleast some minor scaring...

Agreed; They scar easily. And wiring may be best when there is no young growth on the plant to avoid damaging. On a side-thought.. (To avoid subject hijacking I created a new thread): http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12838-baby-bending-branches#134574

leatherback
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Green Mountain Maple - Where will the buds break in the future?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:02 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum