Earthenware or Stoneware?

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Jake16 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:09 am

Which do you use for your pots and why ?

Jake16
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Guest on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:29 am

stoneware hands down and as for why look at the properties of stoneware compared to earthenware heres a like to the different properties of the two
http://stoneware.seeleys.com/html/what_is_stoneware.html

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  MrFancyPlants on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:06 pm

I was just perusing an old stack of bonsai today magazines last night and stumbled across care advice for a weakened tree. It stated that unglazed terracotta pots (I believe earthenware by definition) are the best pots for a weakened tree, because the porosity helps with airflow and moisture exchange. I don't know what temp a pot was fired at by looking at it, but I do prefer unglazed or at least partially unglazed pots where the bottom and inside of the pot is unglazed, for the same moisture exchange reason.

MrFancyPlants
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  crust on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:32 pm

Earthen ware is much weaker and freezes and breaks for me. Stoneware is required for an enduring pot here in zone 3. Unless it is perpetually protected from frost.

crust
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  rockm on Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:45 pm

Horticulturally, stoneware is mostly required for bonsai kept outside in Virginia. Earthware pots split, spalt, crack, crumble and generally deteriorate in a few years in our climate. Earthenware can be used for temporary containers, but stoneware is impervious to the freezes and lasts.

rockm
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  prestontolbert on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:08 pm

Any pot, glazed or unglazed, that allows moisture flow will eventually crack in the winter. The only thing an unglazed interior of a bonsai pot will affect is root adhesion. It is harder for roots to grip a slick glazed surface. The truth is, for a bonsai pot to absorb water as a lot of bonsai-ists imagine, the pot would be worthless after a couple winters. The glaze actually has little to do with water absorption. The clay itself waterproofs a container. The pure function of a glaze is for cleanability. I have seen pots made from highfire clay with a lowfire glaze, fired to cone 04, and leak water through the glaze.
Earthenware or stoneware pots can both make functional bonsai pots as long as they are fired hot enough. Stoneware is tougher, more resistant to chipping. Most tokoname pots are midrange stoneware fired to vitrification (glass like) at 1200c to 1250c or cone 5 to 7. I have seen tokoname pots with cracking and small blowouts that result from firing in the lower part of that range. The point of all this is that clay of any kind has to be fired to vitrification and near zero absorption.

prestontolbert
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Jake16 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:23 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies,

Preston I was just about to say something about vitrification but you beat me to it:) How much more expensive is stoneware if at all ?

Jake16
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  prestontolbert on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:54 am

You probably won't find ANY earthenware bonsai pots. I was just saying that under the right conditions that it is possible to make frost proof earthenware. But... usually the higher a pot is fired, the more expensive it is, all other variables being equal.

Also some potters make a porous, vitrified, frost proof clay by adding sawdust to the body.

prestontolbert
Member


Back to top Go down

I agree, what he said

Post  BigDave on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:51 am

prestontolbert wrote:You probably won't find ANY earthenware bonsai pots. I was just saying that under the right conditions that it is possible to make frost proof earthenware. But... usually the higher a pot is fired, the more expensive it is, all other variables being equal.

Also some potters make a porous, vitrified, frost proof clay by adding sawdust to the body.

good stuff P-tol, you've been to art school havent you... jocolor


Last edited by BigDave on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total

BigDave
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  BigDave on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:53 am

Jake16 wrote:Thanks everyone for the replies,

Preston I was just about to say something about vitrification but you beat me to it:) How much more expensive is stoneware if at all ?

Just FYI check out clay cost here...

http://www.lagunaclay.com/clays/western/cone5-6.php

Dirt cheap,...arrrrr

BigDave
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Jake16 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:43 am

Thanks Dave ill check that out

Jake16
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Ryan B on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:28 am

So here's my take on it. I remember a friend, upon his fist time in Japan, totally shite and sent me all kinds of emails about "stock" trees. Turns out, what he thought were "stock" trees in lower than show quality, low fired and terra cotta esque containers were just as expensive as the trees in nice looking pots...
Why, you may ask? Well here's the answer from the master on site, that every tree needs a couple of years outside of a bonsai pot, because they are, by definition, unhealthy. High fired pots are Awful for health, but Artistically lovely and "everlasting", and that's their only draw, the only reason we use them.! Because they complete the composition. Because they f-ing look good. Nothing to do with horticulture whatsoever. Low fired pots that disintegrate after 1 winter are awesome for roots, they absorb moisture and prevent the round a round that roots do in stoneware. This is not a claim I make lightly, if you actually grow bonsai, you know damn well it's the truth. Terra cotta pots dry at 3-5 ted the rate of a stoneware pot of similiar size. Fact!
Here's the difference it took me a while to understand. Rarely does anyone but westerners actually use show pots to GROW bonsai trees. There is no need for anything other than a piece of shit pot until the season before the big show, until then, grow your bonsai in wooden boxes(best health pissible because of the water/vapor/air exchange mentioned earlier)or whatever suits your fancy. Instead of buying "bonsai pots" for trees that aren't ready to show, and therefore aren't bonsai(another thread), save your money and buy pots that merit the dignity of your trees...does your tree deserve a pot? People tell me mine do...but I say "not yet" "not yet".
Ryan
http://japanesebonsaipots.net/

Ryan B
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  MrFancyPlants on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:03 pm

I'm glad to hear my instincts were not completely off base. Since I dig in my temperate trees for the winter, i have always prefered terracotta, if not pond basket, so that i could imagine my plants shareing the ambiant moisture of the ground. Some terracotta pots can last more than a few years in my zone, subjected to dug in winters. Every year I'll find one or two that has cracked, but the trees don't seem to mind too much, although it can be weakened if you let it go past repotting season.

MrFancyPlants
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: Earthenware or Stoneware?

Post  Sponsored content Today at 8:38 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum