Literati Zelkova?

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Literati Zelkova?

Post  ydde72183 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:45 am

I know that Zelkovas lend themselves to fuller styles like broomstyle. Could this zelkova pull off the image of a tall elegent tree? I really like it's shape but was just wondering if people, who's opinions I value (bonsai people) feel the same way. Should I just increase ramification with this frame or should i broaden the outline slightly. Anyways, thank you for your time.


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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  JimLewis on Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:54 pm

If YOU like the shape, that's fine, of course, but in MY opinion this tree is too tall and skinny for any kind of attractive bonsai. It would take considerable trunk bending to force it into a nice literati shape, and I think you'd find that to be very difficult with Zelkova wood.

If it were mine, I'd chop it at about 1/3 of the way up the trunk.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  guy ward on Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:04 am

I also would chop it--if done would the offcut ,if planted ,strike new roots .Ive heard zelkova strike easily but would the trunk be too large for a positive result?

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Jerry Meislik on Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:43 pm

I like the line of your Zelkova. I am a bit distracted by the bulges. I think the line of the tree may improve as the previous cuts, bulges smooth out.
Technically I find that Literati are difficult designs to maintain with a deciduous tree. They seem to need to grow a lot to stay healthy. By its very nature maintaining a Literati requires little in the way of excess foliage.
Jerry
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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Alan Walker on Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:31 pm

My first thought with material like this is to try to find some more which are similar and create a forest or yose-ue style bonsai.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  ydde72183 on Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:14 pm

Thank you guys. I Think that I will keep my eyes open for a couple trees that are similar and eventually create a forest. I think I was just excited becuase there are not to many zelkovas here in southern california and when you do find them they have awful chops, I think in attempt to start a broom style. Thank you for the ideas.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:00 am

The other idea to consider is making a shohin of it.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Yann on Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:42 pm

Idea Very Happy

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Zelcova to me it looks different!

Post  jamesransom on Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:10 pm

Going off the style suggestion a bit, The picture may not do the zelcova justice but it looks like a silver birch (Betula spp) this may have a baring on the method of styling or cutting back. But may be my eyes or the pc do you have a pic in leaf? Either way nice material to work with Very Happy

James

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Yvoune on Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:24 pm

I had the same feeling about the betula and the nice white bark, James...but I admit I don't know much about zelkova's Embarassed

Yves

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Kev Bailey on Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:29 pm

Betula pendula - Silver Birch usually takes a long time or a very exposed position to turn white and its twigs are thicker and have prominent pointed buds. Zelkova serrata - Japanese Grey Bark Elm has silvery grey bark and very thin twigs with tiny buds and this one looks like Zelkova to me. They are very easy to air layer, and quite easy to do semi-hardwood cuttings in summer, if you want to get more.

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well hard to tell but...

Post  jamesransom on Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:55 pm

I see what you mean but the very black roots and the diamond patteren on the lower base of the trunk some how tells me it could be Betula alba. Depending on where its grown and if its a seedling could have a differing branching habbit but still could be a elm.
James

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Carolee on Fri Feb 27, 2009 1:44 am

This is my long, leggy trunk zelkova. Two years ago when I first potted it, everyone in the club agreed I should chop it. Someone suggested literati, but the president and expert said it would be hard to do so. I like my tree, even though I know it will never be exhibition quality. I recognize it is a very sentimental connection. In the two years since, I have learned to chop and prune new acquisitions ruthlessly with an eye to the future. But, this one I'll keep as is.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Carolee on Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:00 am

I love the drawing, and I will aim my tree in that direction.


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update

Post  ydde72183 on Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:54 am

This is my feminine zelkova as of today


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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  EdMerc on Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:56 pm

I like your tree and if you do too then that's all that really matters. Now, if you plan to show your tree, then you are aware there are certain aesthetics expected in a tree. But for me, I'd develop it at it's current height, but not as a litererati.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Carolee on Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:52 am

I like your tree. In what zone do you live? The buds on my zelkova are just now beginning to swell, even though my tridents have almost completely leafed.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  ydde72183 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:51 pm

I guess I should not really call this a literati. Carolee I live in orange county california. This tree came out of dormancy very suddenly a week ago and has been growing like crazy. This is my first Zelkova so if anyone has tips that aren't already mentioned on the normal species guides it would be appreciated.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Roger Snipes on Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:18 am

I like Yann's suggestion. It seems doable, and once developed you could thin out the branches, keep them short and sparse and when out of leaf it would have a credible literati look I think.

Roger

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  snobird on Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:56 am

I would let the tree grow by itself for two or three seasons in the pot and it will tell you more what it wants to be. By observation of Zelkovas planted here where I live, the growth tends to be upwards on secondary and other growth and then slightly outward on the final twigs. By wiring growth downwards or very horizontal one works against the nature of the species. So in my opinion the image can work but only with guidance from the tree.

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a bit of flair

Post  guy ward on Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:13 pm

I think the roots need to be flared out and or buried a little deeper

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  JimLewis on Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:08 pm

Sorry. I don't "see" a pine-tree-shaped Zelkova.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  martyhab10 on Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:59 pm

I like Kev's suggestion: air layer it! You're coming into the best months to do it. Don't be afraid of killing it: zelkova is very tough to kill.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Randy_Davis on Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:50 pm

martyhab10 wrote:I like Kev's suggestion: air layer it! You're coming into the best months to do it. Don't be afraid of killing it: zelkova is very tough to kill.


I would not recommend attempting an air layer on a Zelkova. While there is success rooting them there is almost a 100% death rate during the first dormant season even for the commercial propagators here in the US. All of the species are grown from seed and the cultivars are generally bud grafted but do over time show some graft union incompatiblilty with the understock.

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Re: Literati Zelkova?

Post  Randy_Davis on Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:31 am

Jerry Meislik wrote:
Technically I find that Literati are difficult designs to maintain with a deciduous tree. They seem to need to grow a lot to stay healthy. By its very nature maintaining a Literati requires little in the way of excess foliage.
Jerry
www.bonsaihunk.us

Hi Jerry,

I thought I'd post a pic of a literati maple that i've been working on for a while. It's not got the finished canopy that I want but it will be much better in 2 or 3 more years of growth. I actually enjoy it far more in the winter months when it's bare of leaves, just because the bark is so nice and furrowed. While literati is not at all common with deciduous trees there are some trees that will work fine if you put in the time and do some trunk chopping and regrowing them out.


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Re: Literati Zelkova?

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