Aging deadwood with winter in a can

Marcus,

Great technique. Thanks for sharing!

Loke Emil wrote:Hm!

very interesting indeed, Marcus. Except I would like to know if there is any environmental issues involved in using the freeze can?

Come to think of it, when I was younger I used to work with CO2 guns (paint ball equipment). These guns were "fired" by frozen CO2 in portable pressure tanks, which would reach -80celsius if blown out in free air. These pressure tanks are refillable...and attached to a pressure hoze with an air brush pen, it would perhabs work as a creative tool for artistic ageing on delicate deadwood, just as well.

regards
/Loke Emil

I like your idea...definitely worth looking into.

Wow what a great tip. Thanks Marcus

Mitch

Great results! Thanks Marcus!

Loke Emil wrote:Hm!

very interesting indeed, Marcus. Except I would like to know if there is any environmental issues involved in using the freeze can?

Come to think of it, when I was younger I used to work with CO2 guns (paint ball equipment). These guns were "fired" by frozen CO2 in portable pressure tanks, which would reach -80celsius if blown out in free air. These pressure tanks are refillable...and attached to a pressure hoze with an air brush pen, it would perhabs work as a creative tool for artistic ageing on delicate deadwood, just as well.

regards
/Loke Emil

yes - the plumbing supply depots have proper kits that work with refillable high pressure co2 cylinders - I have a co2 fire extinguisher or two in the shed too- if i can create a fine nozzle and a control valve it will be perfect - bottle will need a regulator fitting, which is easy enough, otherwise the pressure will blow a fine tube and nozzle to bits and probably freeze my fingers

if there were environmental issues the plumbers probably would not be able to use the stuff in peoples homes every day I guess - my local supply store had about 5 brands and dozens of cans of each brand on the shelf - so a very common product. No residue with this product either so no need to worry about cleaning the wood off before sealing etc. Releasing a bit of co2 is fine, nature is doing it all the time

I did find it environmentally usefull actually (to my tree) - I knew there were various bugs living in 2 of my junipers' hollow trunks.......a short blast inside the trunk and lots of solid frozen bugs blew out the other end haha - it was quite satisfying - if you have a borer insect it will work too

cheers everyone, glad you can see potential uses for my method - it does work best if you have (or make) the first splits / cracks in the wood already - the key is the water in the wood expanding rather than just dry freezing.

winter is coming haha

Very cool idea, thanks for sharing.

Hi Marcus

The tecknique gives very nice results.

How many years have you used it?....do you know for sure this hard freeze in september,or any other time of year, does not hurt a tree, still in growth?....like the tree on the photo?.
How about prunus,or other broadleaf trees, how will they react to this hard freeze?.

Kind regards Yvonne

Hey All,

This kind of product is also used in the electronics industry, so if you can't find the plumbers version, you could try electronics hobby stores or larger online retailers like RS. Just do a google image search for "electronics freeze spray" and you'll get a bunch of names. Marcus, wood is quite a good insulator as opposed to metals that conduct very well, so although I have no experience with having tried this technique, I'd guess the extent of the freezing on dead-wood, and its possible affecting living tissue near by may not be as much of a problem as you suggest. Again, no experience here so I stand to be corrected.

A very interesting technique!

Cheers,

Andrew

Yvonne Graubaek wrote:Hi Marcus

The tecknique gives very nice results.

How many years have you used it?....do you know for sure this hard freeze in september,or any other time of year, does not hurt a tree, still in growth?....like the tree on the photo?.
How about prunus,or other broadleaf trees, how will they react to this hard freeze?.

hi Yvonne, thanks, yes it does.

i look at old bleached dead wood as just dead so wet, cold, warm or dry makes absolutely no difference to me - people carve it, burn it, chisel it and paint all sorts of stuff on it every month of the year, so soaking and freezing is just another thing to do to it - at the end of the day you have to be happy and comfortable to do all sorts of strange methods to your trees in order to achieve the desired results though - i tend to keep my thoughts clear and realistic ie dead wood cant be killed rather than worrying about 'what ifs'.

Many of my trees come from a part of the UK that has had frosts in 10 different months of the year so a freezing blast on sept 30th doesnt worry me at all.

broadleafs.......i dont actually have one that i want cracked dead wood on (just natural dark rotted hollows) so havent found the need to try it. If i had one i'd freeze it the same way though - wood is just wood once its dead. I have been purposely opening the grain with water and freezing the wood for a year or so now - this is the culmination of those experiments and now gives me the control to direct the winter weather where and when i need it.

I agree about the insulation properties of wood too Andrew, but it is better to overstate caution on a forum or someone will over do it and put their tree in the blast freezer then blame me when it dies hahaha

cheers all - anyone got golf clubs for sale

Hi Marcus

A kind of strange answer from you....Everybody knows all sorts of things is done to trees, to make the deadwood look better...I just never heard about this hard frezing and wanted to know if this was just as "safe" as all the other ways.

You have used this tecqnike for a year or so now. Thank you for this answer.

Kind regards Yvonne

marcus watts wrote: anyone got golf clubs for sale

Found the perfect one for you Marcus Here

You must be a rich guy!

tony wrote:

marcus watts wrote: anyone got golf clubs for sale

Found the perfect one for you Marcus Here

You must be a rich guy!

haha, brilliant Tony well found...I was expecting a huge loss of interest is Golf in the USA..............normally people bad at fishing take up golf but I think there may be a huge uptake in fishing soon....

Hi Yvonne, not a strange answer. Like all new methods it it a case of 'buyer beware' as i cant allow for, or comment on, the results that may be obtained by others. The care they take, or even their clumsiness will effect the results after all. I use it on the nice visible deadwood areas of my best juniper (needle & scale) bonsai and will use it on the yew and common juniper when the time is right. None of my other trees suit aged cracked wood.

How will a broad leaf react? You need to thing logically I guess, do they react differently to carving, blow torching or even natural winter weathering ? if you do have trees that reacted differently to having the dead bits worked on then I guess blast freezing could also get a similar reaction. I dont have any trees that have reacted at all to having the dead bits worked on so am happy to do any dead work on just about any day of the year. If you have a precious tree play safe the first time...wait till winter, pick a chilly day and just freeze it a bit harder, but i still personally would do my trees on any available day without any worry

cheers Marcus

I have used this technique on dead wood. I work in the glass industry and we use a pressurized nitrogen spray to run a score when making a small circle cut in a mirror. When I first tried this product, I was wanting to mimic the freeze effect that Allen Carver has suffered on ficus nerifolia; which was a crackled, much textured bark which had healed in the cambium layer and started to callus in the cracks-ya with me? Ok, this happened when there was a flash freeze in Jupiter, Fl. and warmed up drastically. So, I have had success in small bursts and failures in more 2-3 seconds blasts. It also helps to use the little straw; like one for wd-40 (for very fine spray).
I told Ed Trout about my new found magnificent discovery, and showed the rusults, to which he replied "please dont ever do that to my trees"...
I then tried it on deadwood, buttonwood, and bald cypress. I would first torch the wood with my pen torch, then wash off the soot, and then freeze the area protecting anything alive. It is a great technique.
Thank you for sharing the picts with us, I enjoy people who think

Ok, I got a couple of cans of the stuff to play around with.

Philip, interesting. I'll have to give that a try on one of my 'trash' tree's bark next spring.

Marcus, do you just not spray near the live wood or actually protect it with something? And about how long does it take to freeze?...does the deadwood turn white with frost? Just trying to get an general idea.
Thanks!

Chris

Fore wrote:Ok, I got a couple of cans of the stuff to play around with.

Philip, interesting. I'll have to give that a try on one of my 'trash' tree's bark next spring.

Marcus, do you just not spray near the live wood or actually protect it with something? And about how long does it take to freeze?...does the deadwood turn white with frost? Just trying to get an general idea.
Thanks!

Chris

Hi Chris,
my cans came with a straw attachment so the spray was very accurate. I shield the nearby foliage with cardboard sheets as it is a good insulator from the cold, but i do not shield or protect the live veins as i was not working right up to the edges.

my best results came when using a scalpel to open up a few cracks in the deadwood and saturating the area in water fully, letting the wood become soaked. the spray works best with very short bursts, freezing takes seconds and you can see the ice form if you had the wood wet enough, on dryer wood you see white frost within seconds, but the ice is the key to getting lots of natural cracks.

the wood is visibly frozen solid within 10-15 seconds of short bursts - holding the button down looses control and the frozen area spreads out too fast.

once the wood fully dries it shrinks and the cracks open up - i like working on hot days as you can get several treatments into one day, but a hair drryer would dry and shrink the wood pretty well. Once dry re-saturate with water and refreeze.

i save the method for the most visible and important areas of deadwood

have fun with it -

Marcus

Excellent, Thanks for the details! I was thinking that using a blow torch as an alternative to the blow drier would yield very good results too. This is just a fun technique I can't wait to try, so Thanks again for posting this technique Marcus.

Fore wrote:Excellent, Thanks for the details! I was thinking that using a blow torch as an alternative to the blow drier would yield very good results too. This is just a fun technique I can't wait to try, so Thanks again for posting this technique Marcus.

go carefull, a blow torch i find softens edges as it burns away the very thinnest wood - it is excelent for removing signs of work, little rough edges from carving etc, but it will probably burn away the edges of the clearly defined cracks that we are trying to make with the ice. Up until now i try to work on sunny days so the wood dries and starts to shrink naturally.

have fun with it though, it is another usefull string to our bonsai bow

Marcus, that's a very good point! I'll stash them away till next June

<another usefull string to our bonsai bow >

Well said! My 'bonsai shelving' started with tons of room, but now is nearing capacity lol Tons of bows, strings, arrows...

another thread mentioned this thread, so i thought i would bump it up in the queue...

good sounding technique !

marcus watts wrote: it is another usefull string to our bonsai bow  

btw - i think the saying might be "another arrow in our quiver"... ?

good technique. I will try it.

How is the tree doing today ?

kind regards Yvonne

marcus watts wrote:

Fore wrote:Excellent, Thanks for the details!  I was thinking that using a blow torch as an alternative to the blow drier would yield very good results too.  This is just a fun technique I can't wait to try, so Thanks again for posting this technique Marcus.

go carefull, a blow torch i find softens edges as it burns away the very thinnest wood - it is excelent for removing signs of work, little rough edges from carving etc, but it will probably burn away the edges of the clearly defined cracks that we are trying to make with the ice. Up until now i try to work on sunny days so the wood dries and starts to shrink naturally.

have fun with it though, it is another usefull string to our bonsai bow