how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

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how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  inwell on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:29 am

how should i proceed ?

1. Bougainvillea grown from cutting. Cutting size 3-4 inch. Currently 3 branches nearly 2ft long.

A)How do i shape the stem/trunk(that is pencil thick cutting used which is not flexible at all)..or should i leave it that way ?

most of the time cuttings are hard to bend..so how do i manage to make some movement in these cuttings? or the cutting should be selected already having some bends/curves..?


2.This is Delonix regia / royal Poinciana Tree grown from seed. it is currently 10 inch tall (including foliage) and stem 4-5 inch tall..(but not much thick yet)

what should be the next course of action..?
Currently both trees are planted in 15" growing pot...getting daily son for few hrs and water.

regards

inwell
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  JimLewis on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:09 pm

Both plants are to small (thin) for much "bonsai work." Most people hate to hear this advice as much as we hate to have to give it, but I would let these grow for several years until the trunks put on some girth.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  yamasuri on Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:53 pm

There are two options. Keep it potted [change size of pot by repoting ] ...slower success of trunk size ...or field grow [in open ground] faster.

yamasuri
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:32 am

Inwell,

the bougainvillea, should be grown on for a thicker trunk.
The delonia, doesn't really turn into anything.

Have you tried the Tamarind or Flacourtia ?
Later.
Khaimraj

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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  inwell on Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:23 am

thank you for the advice jim,vlad and Khaimraj

iv already made up my mind for that long work. but my query is still the same...

what should i do with these plants( in ground or may be in pots) during their growing years ? pruning / cutting etc.and how tall/big should i allow them to grow there ?

about Poinciana.. its already 10-12 inch tall...what will happen if i pinch the new soft growth ?

Khaimraj.. i have a tamarind tree in one of the growing pots already reached 3ft in height..

regards

inwell
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:31 am

Inwell,

delonia, doesn't turn into anything. However, if you want to still try, grow the trunk to 4 or 5" [ 10 to 13 cm ] wide /diameter and then prepare to cut back to say 15 " [ 38 cm ]. Come and talk to me when you have achieved the trunk size.
Get at least 3 delonia to work with.

Tamarind, get the trunk size first.
So are you aiming for a 2' [ 61 cm ] high tree? If so you need a 4" [ 10 cm ] wide trunk.
On our side Tamarinds don't develop surface roots, unless erosion of the soil takes place.
However they do develop surface features around and on the lower trunk.

The idea here is trunk fattening, then cutting back to develop the first, second and third branches.
As usual get about 3 seedlings to experiment on.
[ see my example of a Tamarind in the section marked Personal Space - gallery ]

For fast ground growing, use a coarse soil mix, and if you are using the actual ground and not a very large pot [ it can be very wide but only 8" [ 20 cm ] deep [ a large wooden crate nailed together ], place your seedlings into plastic rice strainers, for easy removal.

As usual try not to wet the Tamarind leaves when watering or you may get a white powdery fungus growing on the leaves.

If possible do a few drawings of what type of tree you want.

Remember Tamarinds are genetically designed to be straight, and the tree will always try to fill in curves.
Let me know if you have questions.
Best to you.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  inwell on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:43 am

Khaimraj..

thank you....

now from your post can i say that my very first aim should be growing the thick trunk and not to worry much about the height..? so when i get the good trunk size i can reduce the tree to any height i wish ?and i should not prune or reduce the branches till i get the thick stem ?

and yes..these are my very first bonsai so i m not too keen on any specific shape. my first aim is to achieve a bonsai from growing tree regardless of the specific shape .

inwell
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:03 pm

Inwell,

the Tamarind will normally resprout from all over. In the ground down here even from as low as the soil line at times.
[ As usual get at least 3 test subjects, if not more.]

However, if you note on a tamarind seedling where the cotyledons occur, cutting just above that point say 1 cm, or so will result in shoots.

Step 1 grow for trunk size.
Normally before you cut remember to fertilize well for 1 month, and give the tree an extra boost. On a large cut if there are no shoots already present it can take up to 6 months before anything happens.

Step 2 - Branches.
It will take about 3 years to bring the 6 branches needed to form the 1st,2nd,3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th branches, and almost fully heal the wound.

Step 3 - fine twigging.
Then another 3 to put in the branchlets or twigging.

On my side, you can get the trunk size in under 3 years. It is worth the wait.

Around 10 years or so the Tamarind will begin to fruit and the bark will flake off.

I am presently doing some experiments with tamarinds at 15 to 30 cm heights. To see just how small one can go and still get good illusions.
All are from seed.
Tamarinds also like a top layer of their own leaves, branchlets and spent flowers. Seems to keep the soil as acid as they like it. You might notice the soil clumping on itself.

Tamarinds have a reason for those mature shapes they have in nature. You might wish to observe these shapes.
Later.
Khaimraj


Tamarind - 1000 years old
http://www.myanmars.net/myanmar-travel/myanmar-bagan/zeeo-village.htm

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Neli on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:33 am

So much fantastic advise....
I have a tamarind tree in the ground...I can see it will be chopped for bonsai if the trunk is thick enough.
My garden is not old...less than two years, but I brought most of the plants large from the old house...
I can see I am going to dig most of the tress and try to turn them into bonsai...he he he! Silly me!
But it will be lots of fun!
I have a question:
Is it better to shorten the trunk of the tree while it is still in the grounds to reduce the risk of it drying later?

Neli
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Khaimraj Seepersad on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:04 pm

Neli,

if you can locate about 3 to 5 tamarinds in pots and practice on them.

The one in the ground can be started next year when you have more experience working with Tamarinds.

You should also plant about 10 to 20 seeds of the Tamarind in 10 cm pots [ 4 inch ] and try working with them.
Please use a Bonsai soil mix suitable for your area to grow the seedlings in.
Just get my attention and I would be happy to help.
Later.
Khaimraj

Khaimraj Seepersad
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Neli on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:46 pm

Here it is hard to find tamarind in nurseries...not sure if I will manage.
But I can wait till I get some experience and dig it out later...
Just wanted to know if I should shorten it some how now.
Thanks for the advise.
I am not very sure how to get your attention....

Neli
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  kybonsai on Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:14 am

i have a royal poiciana that is about seven years from a seed but it had never been in a bonsai pot until the begining of 2012 when i dscovered bonsai, i find it doesnt bud back well [img][/img]

kybonsai
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:10 am

Where do you live? Where do you keep the tree. This not the best candidate for bonsai because of the size of the leaves. Better soils and a bigger pot will help, but this is a real tropical it needs full su, hot day, warm nights and lots of water.

Billy M. Rhodes
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Re: how should i proceed ? royal Poinciana and bougainvillea

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