Concave cutters

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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Robert Steven on Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:19 am

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:

Again Chinese

Chinese made stuff is not all bad, it just has not been of the same quality as the Japanese product. Whatever you buy, you must clean it after every use with the oil and not leave it outside.

The last one says "stainless" so I am guessing it is steel.

[/quote]

It is the fact that most of the Chinese tools are low quality, but I know there are good one. Just like the ceramic bonsai pot, there are few good manufactures in Yixing who are exporting to Japan..and same as bonsai tools, this manufacture has been producing bonsai tools for Japan under OEM for almost 8 years and now they start to export worldwide since after the factory was taken over by the son of the owner who was graduated and back from UK. It is a good benefit to us because we can get high quality tools with much lower prices.
http://www.joshuaroth.com/60601.html

Robert Steven
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  lordy on Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:52 pm

I would caution you against spending much right at the beginning of your interest in bonsai.
3in1 oil is great, and not very expensive, but any motor oil that you have on hand will do just fine. After all, if you use a capful in the first year I would be somewhat surprised.
Regarding tools, perhaps try a moderately priced Joshua Roth concave cutter, and shear, and maybe a bit later a wire cutter. The fact is that you probably wont need to wire anything for a while. Who knows, you may not find that bonsai is for you. If you love it and continue to pursue your new hobby, your inexpensive tools may wear out. Use the old concave cutters on roots and replace with higher quality ones as your ability to pay more grows.
Tackle boxes are the go-to for many bonsai people. As Jim says, if your bankroll is unlimited, the sky is the limit, but you dont need anything fancy.
After all, this is not a contest to see who can spend the most. Quite the contrary in my opinion: See how nice you can make your trees without spending a bunch.

lordy
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Poink88 on Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:25 pm

lordy wrote:3in1 oil is great, and not very expensive, but any motor oil that you have on hand will do just fine. After all, if you use a capful in the first year I would be somewhat surprised.
I'll be surprised if he uses 6 drops in a year Wink

For shears, you might be surprised that though I have "specialty" bonsai shears at my disposal...my go to scissors/shears is one made by Stanley that looks like this http://www.amazon.com/1096876-5-Inch-Precision-Applique-Scissors/dp/B005573H7Q/ref=sr_1_299?ie=UTF8&qid=1339506745&sr=8-299 ....just have a little longer handle. I bought it from Big Lots for a few bucks and it works perfectly and goes in tiny spaces w/o problem. Also can cut up to 1/4" (soft) branch when I am lazy to get my concave cutter.

Between the two...I probably get 80% of my bonsai tool needs covered.

Check Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes for a small tool set...the ones with two smaller long nose pliers (straight and curved) and a wire cutter (probably 5" long each). It might come with other stuff but will cost you less than $8.00. The 2 long nose pliers and wire cutter is great for bonsai (for now).

As mentioned, tackle boxes work well as tool box.

As you can see, you can get by with just the concave cutter, the rest can be household tools you probably already have. You can always upgrade later if you really think this hobby is for you.

Poink88
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ALL the tools you NEED

Post  JimLewis on Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:06 pm

There are other tools that can come in handy on occasion, but these are really all the tools you will ever need.



from left:

Large concave cutter (15 years old. $60 new. I almost never use this now that I do 90% shohin).
Small concave cuter (35 years old. $40 new.). My Japanese "Bonsai" tool of choice.
Small knob cutters. Rarely used. They were a gift.
ARS scissors (available in any garden shop) my primary tool. $12 - $15
ARS shears (for heavier branches). $12 - $15. These are a bit harder to find but A.M. Leonard (catalog) sells -- or sold -- them.

Top

Craftsman wire cutters (30 years old. $5 when new, probably $10-$15 now.)

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Guest on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:14 pm

My father has a spare 3 in 1 oil bottle (same brand as I posted a link to) but it says motor oil. It should still work though correct?

I went to a nursery place and was astounded by their bonsai supply assortment! They had a very high quality concave cutter made of steel that I got (very sharp) and I got some (what I was told was aluminum/tin alloy) training wire, and some nice looking decoration rocks called "Mexican pebbles". All I need now is a wire cutter and I have pretty much everything I can think of, I got some stuff from Walmart Wink

Guest
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Just Mike on Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:48 pm

sorry to bump an old thread, but stumbled upon this while doing a search and would like to help answer the "oil" quesstion...this is coming from someone who dables in japanese bladesmithing, so i might be able to shed a bit of light...

choji in japanese means clove...choji oil is basically mineral oil with a pleasant clove scent...this is the prefered oil in japan for blades and was the oil traditionally used in the maintenance of Katana/waki/tanto so forth and so on...so, if you can live without the smell of cloves, then light or vet grade mineral oil is essentially the same exact thing and much much cheaper and easier to obtain...

3-1 is an all purpose oil and works just fine, but it a bit more expesive than mineral oil...

i guess i should back up a bit and explain WHY we use oil...so, beyond the obvious lubricating factor, oil also serves another very important purpose in protecting the steel...the japanese have used and continue to prefer simple carbon steel for centuries...all of those polished katana (unless its a cheap knock-off) are made from simple carbon steel called tamahagane...carbon steel is superior to stainless in every aspect except 1...maintenace...stainless steels have alloying elements added that prevent (actually, more like greatly reduce) corrosion of the steel...other than that convenient aspect, stainless is inferior (sorry to everyone with a shiny cutter)...drill rods, metal files, and many other tools are all made from carbon tool steels such as w-1, w-2, 1095, etc etc...have you ever seen a stainless steel drill rod? nope...stailness could never handle that kind punishment...the cost difference between the 2 dont come from a quality difference...stainless steels (and dont get me wrong, they deffinately have their place, like in medical practice for example) are costlier to manufacture and heat treat...due to the alloying elements in stainless, the heat treating process is complicated, more expensive, and requires a pretty elaborate heat treating set up...

so, back to corrsion and oil...due to carbon steels tendancy to corode (rust)...and rather quickly...oil is an ESSENTIAL tool in protecting the steel...a light coat of oil should be applied after EVERY use not just to lubricate, but to prevent moisture and air from being able to contact the steels surface and begin the process of corrosion...a finelt sharpened edge can loose its effectiveness rather quickly if rust is allowed to form on it...if it is going to be in storage and not in use for awhile, such as in the winter...it would probably be a good idea to put a heavier coat of oil on the steel...i promise, a well made carbon steel blade/tool will last several lifetimes is properly maintained...

sooooo...as far as the steel in concerned the type of oil is of less importance than how it is used and with what regularity...i actually really like turbine oil or 3-1 oil for tools i use often...they have a lower viscousity than mineral oil, so is a bit easier to apply, but wont last as long as a layer of mineral oil...now, as far as the plants are concerned, you want to make sure that you arent using anything potentially toxic...i cant think of anything off hand, but, if in doubt, mineral oil is available at any walgreens or grocery store and inexpensive...

sorry for the lengthy rambling post, but maybe it can help someone a bit...

on a side note, if anyone is interested in marking there tools, i know of a very simple way to deep etch carbon steels...you can put your initials, or makers mark, or whatever really...if anyone is interested, shoot me a pm...if there is enough of a demand, i might end up making a little tutorial...

Just Mike
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  BigDave on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:16 am

Just Mike wrote:
on a side note, if anyone is interested in marking there tools, i know of a very simple way to deep etch carbon steels...you can put your initials, or makers mark, or whatever really...if anyone is interested, shoot me a pm...if there is enough of a demand, i might end up making a little tutorial...

Super interested in that, yes please

when you have the time tutorial away

BigDave
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Just Mike on Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:45 pm

i am in the market for a couple new tools anyway...havnt really decided what yet though lol...so, be patient, and when i get a new tool i will take pics and make a little tutorial...

basically though, its electro-etching, but without any fancy equipment...the things you will need are salt, water, a q-tip (or something like a q-tip), a couple wires, a couple allegator clips, and a battery...the bigger the battery the faster and better this will work i used one of those big 6 volt kind...in a pinch you could proably even use your car battery...or better yet, a car battery charger...and some laquer, or nail polish, or vinyl stencil or something that can be used to mask off and create the design you want...and some electrical tape...

the salt water is corosive, and the electrical current running thorugh it speeds up this process greatly...so, what would happen in years and years and years of corrosion we can do in minutes, essentially, selectively etching the exposed areas (the part we want marked)...hope that made even a little sense...

like i said, ill get a tutorial together when i have a new tool to mark...

Just Mike
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  FrankP999 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:32 am

[quote="BigDave"]
Just Mike wrote:
on a side note, if anyone is interested in marking there tools, i know of a very simple way to deep etch carbon steels...you can put your initials, or makers mark, or whatever really...if anyone is interested, shoot me a pm...if there is enough of a demand, i might end up making a little tutorial...

I am interested in this marking technique also.

FrankP999
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concave cutters

Post  ironman on Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:37 pm

on a side note, if anyone is interested in marking there tools...

YES!

ironman
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Just Mike on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:04 am

i promise, i will make a tutorial...im in the market for a spherical cutter...so when i get that, ill make a pic tutorial...

Just Mike
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concave cutters

Post  ironman on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:54 pm

thank you in advance!

ironman
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Just Mike on Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:18 pm

ironman wrote:thank you in advance!

you're welcome in advance

Just Mike
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Re: Concave cutters

Post  Just Mike on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:21 pm

alright...tools arrived...tutorial done...here is a link.

http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t12468-etching-tutorial#130728

Just Mike
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Re: Concave cutters

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