Need help in Japan

I saw the series of posts on facebook neli, ..

What did you think of the black pine styling?

He replied....south of Italy gets minus sig C...and his temps are very low in winter...but very nice helpful guy.

I have another question here and another crazy idea.
What if I graft white pine on tropical variety of pine that grows well in Zambia. Will that make any difference?
Has anyone tried that? What do you think? Can it work?
Grafting in other trees improves the disease resistance and other quality of the grafted material....can it happen with the Pine too??? I am definitely going to try it. But what do you think?

Neli,

I suggest you just try. My attempt at grafting the slower growing JBP onto the lumber pine we have [ Honduran / Caribbean pine cross ] didn't take and I won't be trying until next year.
Have fun.
Khaimraj

Thanks Khaimraj!

I did a little more digging. The country with the highest diversity of species (more species total) than any other in the world is Mexico. Much of Mexico is subtropical or tropical in climate. Arid tropical or wet tropical. (not the correct terms)

Wikipedia has a marvelous list of all the Pine species, grouped by region. Of note is the list for SW USA, Mexico & Central America. Here you will find pines with names like Pinus tropicalis, I would suspect that P. tropicalis would not need any significant winter chill.

You will need to read and choose. then find a seed or plant source. My source for uncommon seed, of pines would be
[url] http://www.treeshrubseeds.com [/url]

By the way, Schmacker seed has Pinus radiata seed, definitely one of the species you should look into. It has been used as bonsai, especially in Australia.

from wikipedia, look at these names, I bet there are a number that will do well at your home. Read the species descriptions on Wiki, a number sound usable. Some have long needles, many have needles less than 8 cm.

Pinus apulcensis - Apulco Pine
Pinus arizonica - Arizona Pine
Pinus ayacahuite - Mexican White Pine
Pinus caribaea - Caribbean Pine
Pinus cembroides - Mexican Pinyon
Pinus chiapensis - Chiapas White Pine
Pinus cooperi - Cooper's Pine
Pinus cubensis - Cuban Pine
Pinus culminicola - Potosi Pinyon
Pinus devoniana (syn. P. michoacana) - Michoacan Pine
Pinus durangensis - Durango Pine
Pinus engelmannii - Apache Pine
Pinus estevezii - Estevez's Pine
Pinus gordoniana (syn. P. douglasiana) - Gordon's Pine
Pinus greggii - Gregg's Pine
Pinus hartwegii - Hartweg's Pine
Pinus herrerae - Herrera's Pine
Pinus hondurensis (syn. P. caribaea var. hondurensis) - Honduras Pine
Pinus jaliscana - Jalisco Pine
Pinus johannis - Johann's Pinyon
Pinus lawsonii - Lawson's Pine
Pinus leiophylla - Chihuahua Pine
Pinus lumholtzii - Lumholtz's Pine
Pinus maximartinezii - Big-cone Pinyon
Pinus maximinoi (syn. P. tenuifolia) - Thinleaf Pine
Pinus montezumae - Montezuma Pine
Pinus nelsonii - Nelson's Pinyon
Pinus occidentalis - Hispaniolan Pine
Pinus oocarpa - Egg-cone Pine
Pinus patula - Patula Pine
Pinus orizabensis - Orizaba Pinyon
Pinus pinceana - Weeping Pinyon
Pinus praetermissa - McVaugh's Pine
Pinus pringlei - Pringle's Pine
Pinus pseudostrobus - Smooth-bark Mexican Pine
Pinus quadrifolia - Parry Pinyon
Pinus rzedowskii - Rzedowski's Pine
Pinus strobiformis - Chihuahua White Pine
Pinus tecunumanii - Tecun Uman Pine
Pinus teocote - Teocote Pine
Pinus tropicalis - Tropical Pine

Leo,

thanks for the information. Neli, as far as I know is back at home with many of her beautiful trees. I think I saw something about white pines and refrigerators so she will have some interesting growing adventures to tell us about when she returns to this forum.

As you know the Japanese Black Pines also grows in the tropics, and easily from seed, so she shouldn't have any problems, also I believe she would Sub-tropical and also in the Tierra templada zone or so, at 4,500 feet, if memory serves.

I presently have sprouted Japanese red pines, but it is too soon to tell if they will adjust to my climate. Wish me luck.
Stay Well.
Khaimraj

Leo,

an add on -

Pinus hondurensis (syn. P. caribaea var. hondurensis) - Honduras Pine

is I believe the lumber pine for us.
Khaimraj

Leo,
Thanks a million! This is wonderful info. As Khaimraj said I am back. I thought black pine might do well in my area, though not too sure. But never the less bought some....maybe 10 or more. I just love them. Bought one white pine only, a yamabutsa...myiagi, a miniture white pine. It is a mame and I plan to keep it that way. If I see they are not doing too well, will get a old deep freezer, put a glass on top and try to grow them that way. I am going into lots of trouble for my bonsai, so that will not be that much. I had to put a tank on a high stand 5 meter high and connected a hose pipe to it. I add acid to my water since my water PH is 8.5. That water is used for the acid loving plants only. I had to buy some azaleas. 
I brough with me aa suitcase full of bonsai. Did not count them but must be close to 50...they varied looking like compost. The rest are coming cargo soon. This is one of my pines that had its pot broken, and lots of branches damaged. I had packed them nicely, but the day I was leaving there was hurricane arriving, and they stopped the shinkansen. I was scared they will stop other public transport, so I had to rush to the airport, and just did not have the time to pack them again properly. so lots of broken branches. I like shohin and mame, but bought also one huge one...20+ cm trunk.
This one has not arrived yet:
https://m.ak.fbcdn.net/sphotos-d.ak/hphotos-ak-frc3/p206x206/1012491_4987566138975_1331446975_n.jpg

This is the one that came and is squashed, but I repaired i a bit. Have no pots here, to buy, so I put it in this one until I buy a proper pot. The pot broke. It was terribly squashed, but if it survives, I shall grow and style it. It is just ready for ramification stage.

back

Hi Neli

I have followed many of your posts and I really admire you quest for knowledge. My knowledge in bonsai is limited but I have worked in horticulture all of my working life. One thing I would like to add to this is the providence of the seed or graft of where the stock has originated from.

This might be totally irrelevant to the post but I remember many years ago when I was buying Christmas trees for the UK garden centres and the most up an coming tree was a needle retentive Nordman Fir.
Growers were getting seed from where ever they could find it but the only seed that would produce the most compact tree and that would viable for the Christmas tree market came from Ambrolauri in Russia (the difference of origin and the later sprouting of buds). Lots of growers received seed from Turkish origin and the sprouting of these trees was much earlier and lead to earlier growth and longer growing season (regardless of where they were growing). This intern resulted to tens of thousands of trees been substandard for the Christmas tree market, (just too long and leggy).

It all came down to providence of the seed, if the altitudes of the region of origin determine how early or the come into growth and this also was also a problem with young shoots being damaged by late frosts in spring.

What I am trying to say is that in my experience that a certain species of tree can vary hugely dependent on where the seed has originated from.

Regards

John

Thanks Jtay,
Good info and it makes sense, but I am a bit impatient. I would rather buy a tree with trunk and ramify /style it. I bought already this trees, and someone promiced to send me lots of radiata seeds. My fellow apprentice was from Australia. So he promised me some. I shall try those. I also picked a seed from halipensis in SA and I have a tiny halipensis growing too. I brought also a rare new variety of black pine, that does not need needle reduction. It has short needles but is grafted on normal black pine.
This is now my trees arrived:

I thought all the little ones will have a hard time travelling cargo so I decided to bring them with me...but it was not a very good idea.
I shall post the rest later.
This is how it looked before

Thanks Khaimraj. I shall try to look for big ones.