imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

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imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Poink88 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:39 pm

I just bought Bayer Advance Tree & Shrub w/ imidacloprid (water soluble watering-NOT sprayed, 12 month) and wondering if anyone can help me narrow down where it is safe to apply.

My trees include;
apple/crabapple - safe
quince - safe
ginseng ficus
fukien tea
red maple
trident maple
logwood/campeche
neea buxifolia
juniper
tx persimmon
tx sage
tx ebony
boxwood
bald cypress
cedar elm
cypress
guamuchil
agarita
buttonwood
willow leaf ficus (nerifolia/salicaria)
tintillo
yaupon holly
barberry
azalea
ligustrum
pomegranate
barbados cherry
live oak
amargoso

Thank you.


Last edited by Poink88 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Imidacloprid

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:46 pm

Best people to ask are the manufacturer.
One thing to remember about Imidacloprid, it makes spider mites worse.
Iris

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Poink88 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:52 pm

bonsaisr wrote:One thing to remember about Imidacloprid, it makes spider mites worse.
Iris, Would you know the reason why?

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  gope on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:30 am

bonsaisr wrote:
One thing to remember about Imidacloprid, it makes spider mites worse.
Iris

I wouldnt worry about spider mites.
This insecticide is responsible for bees colony collapse in the world. Would not use it on any flowering tree or plants planted in the ground.

Use it only in the container growing plants. Only if you have to...

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:37 am

Poink88 wrote:
bonsaisr wrote:One thing to remember about Imidacloprid, it makes spider mites worse.
Iris, Would you know the reason why?
Unlike acephate or other systemics, Imidacloprid only attacks insects, not mites. However, it also kills the parasitic wasps that keep mites in check. Therefore, if you use Imidacloprid and also have mites, you will also have to use a miticide.
Iris

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:39 am

gope wrote:
This insecticide is responsible for bees colony collapse in the world..
Where did you get that information?
Iris

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  gope on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:48 am

Straight from Harvard scientists, Iris...

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  drgonzo on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:12 am

Iris
Take a look at this recent article in the New Yorker for more info on the very latest studies, they all indicate neonicotinoid use as one the major causes of CCD, interesting the law suit against the EPA.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/04/new-studies-colony-collapse-disorder.html

I'm a beekeeper and we're lucky that these chemicals are not in wide usage in central NY. In fact I need to go visit 'the girls' tomorrow.
-Jay

When considering the use of imidacloprid just remember; honey bees are responsible for the production (via their pollination) of 60% of our food supply in the USA. If we lose the Bees we starve. Its just that simple.

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:09 am

this thread has evolved into a very interesting direction - ethics and environment - bonsai is basically a hobby for personal pleasure, keeping them bug free isnt that hard and should not require chemicals that can destroy or decimate the real wild world. A few sap suckers here and there doesnt cause a problem usually

the EPA.gov guidelines say imidacloprid is highly accutely toxic to honeybees - In the past I used a product containing thiacloprid (which the epa site classes as unlikely to effect bees) but I just read this and found it informing and worrying at the same time - bees, systemic insecticides, controled study. it concludes that bees previously infected with Nosema ceranae have less resistance to thiacloprid than healthy ones. This infection is in bee colonies across europe and the united states it seems, so to risk using thiacloprid in future on bonsai would be equally irresponsible.

I'd send your bottle to wherever it has to go for correct disposal Dario and help the situation rather than add to it. I cant imagine you have such infestations that you need it anyway as the trees are very new.

If your trees are kept fed and healthy, nicely spaced with good light and airflow pests are usually a minor problem. What pests are you trying to control? someone may be able to help with less harmfull treatments.

cheers Marcus

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:53 am

Jay, Interesting about the bees - i must admit the commonest bee i see in the garden now is a bumble bee rather than a honey bee. Do bumbles pollinate as well, or less so than honey bees?

cheers

Marcus

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  gope on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:09 am

Here is the link to a good film trailer, showing the scale of the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekoeQodrVoM

Generally, we should avoid to use all the neonicotinoids but not only them.

For those who live in UK, Europe, here is the list of the names of the products: http://www.biobees.com/british_beekeeping/avoid_pesticides.php

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:46 am

Imidacloprid is banned in Frrance and Germany too, so in answer to the original question I think the trees to avoid are all of them.

I have an unopened bottle of neem on the shelf...anyone used it as details seem sketchy?

cheers Marcus

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  paulf on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:50 pm

I liked to use these nicotine based insecticides as they were bird and mammal friendly(ish) - and they decayed very quickly(in sunlight). As a general rule i dont use them much - but i have had some very heavy infestations when i needed to. Is there an alternative with similar characteristics ? scale and aphids periodically bedevil me.

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  JimLewis on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:55 pm

Almost all bees perform pollination. The larger ones, of course, may have difficulty pollinating plants with small flowers.

A few sap suckers here and there don't cause a problem usually

Truer words were never spoken. Water, soap sprays (except on some maples), and horticultural oils are generally adequate. You should never spray one (or two) bug(s). Sprays are for infestations -- or for very persistent pests. When you do spray, you should use the least toxic alternatives first.

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  drgonzo on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:17 pm

marcus watts wrote:Jay, Interesting about the bees - i must admit the commonest bee i see in the garden now is a bumble bee rather than a honey bee. Do bumbles pollinate as well, or less so than honey bees?
Marcus

Far Less unfortunately. The pursuit of both pollen AND nectar will take honey bees miles from home, from the tops of the trees, to the clover in the fields. Relentlessly they pursue their spoils until they literally drop dead from exhaustion. 30-60 thousand in a strong hive. So good are they at what they do that it's big business to "rent" out a hive to orchards and production farmers, you pick it up at the end of the season full of honey, along with a check from the farmer for services rendered (by the bees).

-Jay

BTW> you think WE get into some pitched battles around here, try going on a beekeepers forum!

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  DreadyKGB on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:39 pm

Dario,
I second Marcus's question. What pests are you trying to control? You list all the varieties of trees you have, are they all infested? Why not follow Jim's advice and look for less toxic forms of pest management? Five years in and the only pest control I have used is a deer and rabbit repellent spray. The deer seem to be the worst culprit for tree damage, waking up to find a tree stripped of all leaves and small branches is a bit frustrating. All other bugs I control by hand or natural remedies depending on the pest.

Todd

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Poink88 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:00 pm

Thanks guys for the advise, the insecticide is going back (I can still return it).

I read about it being recommended here under another brand and in spike form and no one commented (anything bad about it) so I thought it is good since I don't have to spray it but shows how much I know. The year long protection sold me to it. I also specifically checked that it doesn't hurt the spiders I have. While I am not lazy, I like the convenience...of course I didn't know the down side. There goes the saying again...if it sounds too good to be true...

As for pests, I have aphids that seems under control but also have some leaf eating bugs I don't see (just the damaged leaves) and some beetles. Also have leaf galls I don't know what insect causes.

Anyway, I will stick with my milk, water, and liquid soap solution which seems to help a lot.

Thanks again!!!


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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  adam1234 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 4:12 pm

JimLewis wrote: Water, soap sprays (except on some maples), and

Which maples Jim? Worried cause I used soap spray recently on an Acer palmatum 'Taylor'. If you could elaborate would appreciate it.

Adam

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  JimLewis on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:26 pm

I'd be careful with soap on all maples, but A. palmatum doesn't seem to be hurt. Tridents will wilt badly if sprayed with a soap spray -- especially a home-made soap spray (but all are dangerous).

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  adam1234 on Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:30 pm

thanks for the info jim,

Adam

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  gope on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:14 pm

Poink88 wrote:I read about it being recommended here under another brand and in spike form and no one commented (anything bad about it)...

The same here, obtained some provado sticks, stuck it into the soil, then started to look up imidacloprid on internet.
I'd say, if you limit the application to container, not flowering trees, you're fine. Most people do not care though (or simply don't know) and use it as a fast solution on any kind of pests, even on plants planted in the ground. That's why it should be taken off the market and forgotten...

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Imidacloprid

Post  bonsaisr on Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:28 pm

Poink88 wrote: Also have leaf galls
If you have elm leaf galls, they are probably caused by a mite, in which case Imidacloprid is worse than useless. You need a systemic miticide. Ask your local extension agent or talk to a licensed pesticide applier.
Iris

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Poink88 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:27 pm

gope wrote:
Poink88 wrote:I read about it being recommended here under another brand and in spike form and no one commented (anything bad about it)...

The same here, obtained some provado sticks, stuck it into the soil, then started to look up imidacloprid on internet.
I'd say, if you limit the application to container, not flowering trees, you're fine. Most people do not care though (or simply don't know) and use it as a fast solution on any kind of pests, even on plants planted in the ground. That's why it should be taken off the market and forgotten...
I believe we read the same post then. Mine was also about Provado sticks and since they are not sold here in the US, I checked the active ingredient and found it is imidacloprid or merit. I believe it comes in 5 or more different names.

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Guest on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:20 pm

Provadosticks is close to the only insectiside you can buy here in Denmark...rules are VERY strickt.

As they are stuck into the soil, will spray not hit flowers and bugs, or anything else arround...also is nothing wasted into the air.

I only use the sticks for my bonsaitrees, and not to a potplant I easily can replace.
I would ask my dealer to import the sticks, they work very nice and easy.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

Post  Poink88 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:28 pm

Yvonne,

If I am understanding this right...it is not the overspray that causes the problem (thought it will) but the amount deposited to the pollen by the tree absorbed by the roots.

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Re: imidacloprid (Bayer Advance Tree and Shrub) which trees can it be safely (or avoid to) apply on?

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