Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

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Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:37 am

My son and i picked this up rather cheap(s-trunk) and figured it may be fun to make ours Smile Any suggestions on a direction to head are welcomed. And yes its going outside as soon as these 30 degree nights quit popping up around here . Bizzare Ohio weather
.[img] upload pictures[/img]

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:11 am

[img] hosting images[/img]

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:37 am

[img] jpg upload[/img]

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Chinese Elm

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:00 am

Tree looks healthy, but those 90 degree bends are considered bad taste. Learn how to air layer, so you can air layer it just above the second bend. The bottom might even give you a bonus to practice on.
Iris

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:21 am

I agree it looks less appealing . So when we do air layer would you go where i labeled the drawing and when the layering is chopped also chop at the other S in my drawing and train the branch as the new leader? Please dont make fun of my drawing ability haha Thanks Smile[img] picture hosting[/img]

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:26 am

Also would you recommend taking off the 2other branches above the 2nd bend prior to layering?

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Yes

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:10 pm

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:Yes
Thanks for the answer Billy but, curious if the yes is to all of the questions including removing the 2 branches . Appreciate you input Very Happy

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Chinese Elm

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:35 pm

To the questions on your picture, yes & yes. After the air layer, I would not cut off the lowest branches unless they are really in the way. We call them sacrifice branches. They will help thicken the trunk. It will be time enough to cut them off when they get too big.
Of course when the air layer is ready to pot, you will pot it in an oversize shallow pot, like a bulb pan, in very coarse soil & feed heavily. It will go outdoors for the rest of the summer. The first winter, it will need to go dormant but should probably be kept above freezing.
Iris

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:01 pm

I answered Yes because I think the two branches in question will cause problems with the airlayer and its subsequent transfer to a training pot.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Poink88 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:43 pm

Air layering is a way to go but do not limit yourself to it. You can still change those bends and soften the curves if you want. Just another option to consider. There is a lesson to be learned doing it that way too. Wink

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:20 pm

Poink88 wrote:Air layering is a way to go but do not limit yourself to it. You can still change those bends and soften the curves if you want. Just another option to consider. There is a lesson to be learned doing it that way too. Wink
how would one go about getting such a drastic bend out? I am open to all ideas. With it being healthy i know the layering window is coming based on weather and increased foilage growth. Thanks Cool

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Poink88 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Note that you do not aim to totally eliminate the bends...just soften it and make it work for you.

There are different options...
1. wiring with really heavy gauge wire,
2. wrapping the length with raffia, placing heavy gauge wire parallel to the trunk, re-wrapping with think wires then large wires.
3. jacks,
4. rod anchored in the soil and the base of the tree. From there start bending back the tree and secure it to the rod. Repeat going up.
5. etc.

The one I will most likely use if it is mine would be the rod (or jacks second).

BTW, in all of these, you have to protect the bark with raffia, leather, old tire tube, etc. so it won't get damaged.

Your limit is just your imagination.

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Chinese Elm Mallsai

Post  bonsaisr on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:41 pm

I gather dadshouse is a relative beginner & what Poink88 suggests are very advanced techniques. There are no branches there anyway. And that size trunk is probably too stiff. I strongly suggest an air layer.
Billy, I agree if those lower branches are in the way, they have to go.
Iris

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Poink88 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:50 pm

Iris, Please note that I am also a beginner. Of course, I agree that he should only try it if he thinks he is up to it.

Coming in to this hobby, I was told I cannot bend boxwood, it is too brittle, too tough, etc. etc. etc. Well, so far I've bent 3/4" (or bigger) boxwood branches 90 degrees (not sharp bend though) and they didn't break and are still looking very healthy. How long before they set is the question LOL.


Last edited by Poink88 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:53 pm

When it comes to difficulty of technique or likelihood of success by a beginner, I think both techniques are iffy.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Smithy on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:01 pm

Poink88 wrote:Note that you do not aim to totally eliminate the bends...just soften it and make it work for you.

There are different options...
1. wiring with really heavy gauge wire,
2. wrapping the length with raffia, placing heavy gauge wire parallel to the trunk, re-wrapping with think wires then large wires.
3. jacks,
4. rod anchored in the soil and the base of the tree. From there start bending back the tree and secure it to the rod. Repeat going up.
5. etc.

The one I will most likely use if it is mine would be the rod (or jacks second).

BTW, in all of these, you have to protect the bark with raffia, leather, old tire tube, etc. so it won't get damaged.

Your limit is just your imagination.


Dario ,I was wondering if you had tried bending such a thick Chinese elm trunk. I have not but would be very weary of trying it as i would be worried of it snapping. I would also be worried about giving advice to a beginner in case they snap their beloved tree.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Poink88 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:11 pm

Smithy wrote:Dario ,I was wondering if you had tried bending such a thick Chinese elm trunk. I have not but would be very weary of trying it as i would be worried of it snapping. I would also be worried about giving advice to a beginner in case they snap their beloved tree.
I offered an option, he asked how to do it, I gave him my ideas. If he wants to try them why not?

I don't have chinese elm and not sure how thick this is but assuming less than 1" based on the photo. If my estimate is right, and if it behaves like cedar elm, it is very bendable.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Ryan on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:45 pm

I've owned one of these and tried what you mention Dario, to bend the trunk to make the curves look a little more appealing. It was close to impossible to move it, so I gave up. I too agree with air layering.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:00 am

bonsaisr wrote:I gather dadshouse is a relative beginner & what Poink88 suggests are very advanced techniques. There are no branches there anyway. And that size trunk is probably too stiff. I strongly suggest an air layer.
Billy, I agree if those lower branches are in the way, they have to go.
Iris
yes I am fairly new. I have researched bonsai for years but, finally able to practice and learn. Kids are a little older now and i have some me time :)i the trunk is very stiff and i am probably heading the air layer direction. I picked up spagnum moss and root hormone today. Very excited to do this. Thanks and will post more pics as i do.

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  Sakaki on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:10 am

dadshouse wrote:
bonsaisr wrote:I gather dadshouse is a relative beginner & what Poink88 suggests are very advanced techniques. There are no branches there anyway. And that size trunk is probably too stiff. I strongly suggest an air layer.
Billy, I agree if those lower branches are in the way, they have to go.
Iris
yes I am fairly new. I have researched bonsai for years but, finally able to practice and learn. Kids are a little older now and i have some me time :)i the trunk is very stiff and i am probably heading the air layer direction. I picked up spagnum moss and root hormone today. Very excited to do this. Thanks and will post more pics as i do.

Good luck Smile

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Chinese Elm Mallsai

Post  bonsaisr on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:01 am

One way of making an air layer easier, instead of just wrapping the area in plastic, take a plastic pot, cut it down one side & into the center bottom, then cut a hole in the bottom the size of the trunk. After you have cut the bark & treated the bare part with rooting hormone, slip the pot around the trunk & stuff the wet moss around the wound in the pot. Then tape the whole thing in place & wrap it with plastic.
Iris

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:05 am

[quote="Sakaki"]
dadshouse wrote:
bonsaisr wrote:I gather dadshouse is a relative beginner & what Poink88 suggests are very advanced techniques. There are no branches there anyway. And that size trunk is probably too stiff. I strongly suggest an air layer.
Billy, I agree if those lower branches are in the way, they have to go.
Iris
yes I am fairly new. I have researched bonsai for years but, finally able to practice and learn. Kids are a little older now and i have some me time :)i the trunk is very stiff and i am probably heading the air layer direction. I picked up spagnum moss and root hormone today. Very excited to do this. Thanks and will post more pics as i do. [/quo ThumbsUp te]

Good luck Smile
thanks

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  dadshouse on Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:11 am

bonsaisr wrote:One way of making an air layer easier, instead of just wrapping the area in plastic, take a plastic pot, cut it down one side & into the center bottom, then cut a hole in the bottom the size of the trunk. After you have cut the bark & treated the bare part with rooting hormone, slip the pot around the trunk & stuff the wet moss around the wound in the pot. Then tape the whole thing in place & wrap i
Iris
If i go the route with the pot would it be more difficult to know when it has developed enough to chop where without the pot i could see it through the ceran wrap. Thanks for the guidance - Mario aka dadshouse

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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

Post  akhater on Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 am

What I usually do is use an empty plastic water bottle instead of the pot since it is transparent and then I cover it all with a black plastic bag.

advantages: 1. it is easier to keep the moss in place 2. you can easily check for roots anytime you want


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Re: Chinese elm Mallsai in progress ;)

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