Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:29 pm

Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  adam1234 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:43 pm

yves71277 wrote:
Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

Hi Yves71277 and max,

Would it be possible to show a branch of your trees in leaf and maybe with the fruit. I have a tree and had been unable to identify but now looking at this thread I am wondering if my tree could be a Malus sylvestris. Do you mind? Would greatly appreciate the photos.

Many thanks,
Adam

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:08 pm

adam1234 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

Hi Yves71277 and max,

Would it be possible to show a branch of your trees in leaf and maybe with the fruit. I have a tree and had been unable to identify but now looking at this thread I am wondering if my tree could be a Malus sylvestris. Do you mind? Would greatly appreciate the photos.

Many thanks,
Adam

ok i'll try to remember your request, but remember mine is a youngster, in full ground to grow for at least 5 more years before anything useful will come out of it. But i could post branches and leaves. Fruit no, that'll take many many many more years. I got my malus sylvestris from a scientific research program (cutting of one of those 200 remaining authentic wild sylvestris's, not the 99% sylvestris everyone refers too but are hybrids)

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:47 pm

adam1234 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

Hi Yves71277 and max,

Would it be possible to show a branch of your trees in leaf and maybe with the fruit. I have a tree and had been unable to identify but now looking at this thread I am wondering if my tree could be a Malus sylvestris. Do you mind? Would greatly appreciate the photos.

Many thanks,
Adam

adam, hope this scientific report/study can help a bit...see page 16 to 19 for phenotypical characterisation (fruit diamater and colour and other characteristics such as greyish to purple reddish twig/branch colour and hairyness of leaves and twigs)

http://www.belspo.be/belspo/organisation/publ/pub_ostc/EV/rappEV28_en.pdf

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  adam1234 on Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:35 pm

yves71277 wrote:
adam1234 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

Hi Yves71277 and max,

Would it be possible to show a branch of your trees in leaf and maybe with the fruit. I have a tree and had been unable to identify but now looking at this thread I am wondering if my tree could be a Malus sylvestris. Do you mind? Would greatly appreciate the photos.

Many thanks,
Adam

adam, hope this scientific report/study can help a bit...see page 16 to 19 for phenotypical characterisation (fruit diamater and colour and other characteristics such as greyish to purple reddish twig/branch colour and hairyness of leaves and twigs)

http://www.belspo.be/belspo/organisation/publ/pub_ostc/EV/rappEV28_en.pdf

Hi Yves72177,

Thank you for the reply. The study is very interesting, thank you for the link. Have a look at this thread which I posted a while back and tell me what you think http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11047-help-identify-a-tree-with-a-small-fruit

Cheers,
Adam

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  Ryan B on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:30 am

Never mind. What's the point, we were all very young once.
Ryan
Http://Japanesebonsaipots.net/


Last edited by Ryan B on Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Over the top "critique" with good and bad points that might cause a troll to leave the forum)

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

Post  Guest on Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:17 am

adam1234 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
adam1234 wrote:
yves71277 wrote:
Max wrote:And if yes was it a sylvestris and no domesticus (as nearly all apple bonsai are)? I am afraid you have no idea about how rare this is. And this rareness is why I called it a "real" yamadori.

Hi max,
nice 'sylvestris'. I have one too, in training, a very special one; a 'authentic' sylvestris, by which I mean one that is genetical descendant from the last sylvestris's known to descend from the original 'wild' sylvestris's. There are like approx 200 of those left in the wild here in Belgium.
99% of the 'sylvestris' people speak about are actually a mix of domestica variaties and sylvestris, hybrids. There are ways to determinate them, by the fruit. You would have to look at it genetically, or collect the fruit and see if (average) the fruit are not bigger than 2 to 2,5cm (i could look it up). Another 'physical' characteristic of hybrid is if the fruit have stripes. The 'real' deal ones do not have this, they are more homogenous in colour, and/or would have more spots than stripes.

When mine grows up, and i could make cuttings of it, maybe i'll let you have one. Its nice to see you love sylvestris so much

Hi Yves71277 and max,

Would it be possible to show a branch of your trees in leaf and maybe with the fruit. I have a tree and had been unable to identify but now looking at this thread I am wondering if my tree could be a Malus sylvestris. Do you mind? Would greatly appreciate the photos.

Many thanks,
Adam

adam, hope this scientific report/study can help a bit...see page 16 to 19 for phenotypical characterisation (fruit diamater and colour and other characteristics such as greyish to purple reddish twig/branch colour and hairyness of leaves and twigs)

http://www.belspo.be/belspo/organisation/publ/pub_ostc/EV/rappEV28_en.pdf

Hi Yves72177,

Thank you for the reply. The study is very interesting, thank you for the link. Have a look at this thread which I posted a while back and tell me what you think http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t11047-help-identify-a-tree-with-a-small-fruit

Cheers,
Adam

I'll answer in that topic...

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Re: Malus sylvestris a real yamadori

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