5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

ulmus "Nire"

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:36 pm

The botanical name of all Chinese elms is Ulmus parvifolia. Nire is the Japanese word for elm, not any particular variety.
You don't have a cultivar name. Keyaki means nothing. If you are entering it in a show, you can label it Dwarf Chinese elm, Ulmus parvifolia. As I said, if it exhibits corky bark, you can add the cultivar name 'Cork Bark.'
However, I'm beginning to wonder if there may be two cork bark varieties. Evergreen Gardenworks describes it as more suitable for large bonsai because of the size of the leaves. Mine is a shohin tree barely 11 inches tall. The bark is somewhat corky, but the leaves are tiny, in perfect shohin scale. (Not as small as shohin 'Seiju' or 'Hokkaido.')
Stay tuned.
Iris
PS I have no botanical education. I took one course in Taxonomy of Flowering Plants. Other than that I am self-taught. I have a lot of botanical symptoms, and the head taxonomist at Kew calls me a botanist, but I don't know if that's enough for a conviction. lol!

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:43 pm

Hi Again Iris

Keyaki, or Geyaki is the common japanese name for Ulmus Parvifolia.

I can not say I know, if there are two kinds of corcbark...I just know my tree shoots a LOT of buds everyvere, also from the trunk, and is happy to produce scaly bark.....not at all cork. I have corkbark varietys, and they are clearly diffrent, and has the same barkhabit, both the ulmus, and the pines.

My small tree is now standing 13,5 cm tall, and will go in a exhibition in 14 days....this I look a lot forward too.
I think, I just stick to the name "Ulmus Parvifolia", and if anybody want to know more about the small leaves, am I now able to both explain and confuse Smile .

My guess is, you have read more than a few books What a Face .

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Hans Vleugels on Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:06 pm

According to me Keyaki is Japanese elm (Zelkova), and Nire is Chinese elm (Ulmus).... scratch

BTW Yvonne: Great shohin elm on the first page!

Hans Vleugels
Member


Back to top Go down

Ulmus "Nire"

Post  bonsaisr on Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:40 pm

I don't always believe Wikipedia, but this seems accurate.
Zelkova serrata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Zelkova serrata (Keyaki or Japanese Zelkova); Japanese: 欅 (ケヤキ) keyaki;

I must have misunderstood you somewhere along the line. scratch
I thought you said this group was beginning to show signs of corky bark. Then they are just Ulmus parvifolia, with a small p.
Iris

bonsaisr
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:39 pm

Hi Rui

After thinking a little longer, do I think it is best to vire the roots in winter, before they becomme more stiff and fragile, because of the sapflow.

Hi Iris

I am happy you have misunderstood the corkbark thing...I was beginning to think you maybe was a bit stubborn, and that is not you at all Smile

After reading all these interresting inputs from Iris and Hans, and let us not forget Darky, who has two nice replies on page 3.....

Darky said, if I understood him right, Nire Geyaki/Keyaki was the name, of this kind of Ulmus parvifolia, this sort of specie, was created in Japan long ago, for the purpose of making nice shohinmaterial.

Hans said Keyaki is japanese elm (zelkowa), and Chinese elm is ( ulmus)

And with all the information Iris has come up with, do I think I can understand more...

A chinese elm ( Ulmus Parvifolia) refined in Japan to become shohinmaterial ...can very well have the common japanese name Nire Geyaki/ Keyaki....both nire, keyaki and geyaki is japanese words.

This will make sense in Japan, not in the western world....it is the same with satzuki, in this case we just know better now.

Am I all wrong?...please let me know

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Gary Swiech on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:22 pm

I thought you might be interested in this page since we've been talking about Nire elms, zelkova etc. I found some
Nire (Zelcova serrata ‘Nire’) for sale.

nire elm link


Last edited by Gary Swiech on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : link)

Gary Swiech
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:37 pm

Hi Thanks Gary

I will take a look.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Gary Swiech on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:12 pm

Your welcome Yvonne.

Gary Swiech
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:23 pm

I have a little update on 4 of the small new bonsaitrees to be.....



The 3-trunk has its branches in place now....the trunk to the left give a little "troubble", the red area is were i will use buds to gett a lower branch, and loose the part to the left, right ower...better direction and taper. This will wait untill next year, as I know this kind of tree is a bit fragile, and would die off the part, if I cut it back now, due to the late summer.
The low branch to the left is a bit of a design challence...I will try to keep it in this slightly "windsvept" way, and not just let it grow to the left unattented.


This one will need to have a new possition in the pot, when repotting next winter...it is a good idea to keep the front sharp and visible, due to the next pruning and styling...it is the small things actully done, that make it easy to do the right thing when styling.
( I better do something about the chalk on the pot)

This one has its branches in place, and will be pruned like other trees in the years to come....like the other trees is no branches left to give shaddow on a branch below






On the last tree, did I during the summer have the reminder...better make sure you have branch 1- 2- 3- in the right place...I took out the backbranch (nr. 2) and turned the tree arround...I will now find a new 3th branch in the toparea....as it was, did theese 3 low branches form an unatractive diagonal dense line, without movement...it was also impossible to continue the trees growth, as new branches longer up the tree would give shaddow and troubble in the design, and make it dificult to maintain...I never laugh of the first, second and third branch...it is clever thinking that made this rule Smile

Kind regards Yvonne




Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  AlainK on Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:26 am

Rui Marques wrote:
Yvonne Graubaek wrote:
I took the cutting late winter, the cuttings with ony one root, had it vired loosely and then formed as a "cone"

Hi Yvonne,

Late winter is the best time to do elm cuttings? How about late spring when leaves are sending energy to the roots?


I took 4 cuttings in late June this year, and by now they have all rooted.

They're from another cutting that a friend gave me and that I let grow to fatten it. In France too, people call this kind of cork-bark elm Ulmus parvifolia 'Nire', but as Iris put it, it only means "Elm elm". I suppose that it's because they are quite rare and the name sounds more exotic. So they can sell it at a higher price... Smile

AlainK
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:18 pm

AlainK wrote:
Rui Marques wrote:
Yvonne Graubaek wrote:
I took the cutting late winter, the cuttings with ony one root, had it vired loosely and then formed as a "cone"

Hi Yvonne,

Late winter is the best time to do elm cuttings? How about late spring when leaves are sending energy to the roots?


I took 4 cuttings in late June this year, and by now they have all rooted.

They're from another cutting that a friend gave me and that I let grow to fatten it. In France too, people call this kind of cork-bark elm Ulmus parvifolia 'Nire', but as Iris put it, it only means "Elm elm". I suppose that it's because they are quite rare and the name sounds more exotic. So they can sell it at a higher price... Smile

You are right...new cuttings is taken in the summer...vireing "old" cuttings, is some thing else....

Yes you are right again...there are a lot of mixup with names, as it is said many times in this tread.....if you read theis tread more carefully, will you read my tree is not a corcbark...the bark scales in a diffrent way....I have corcbarktrees, they all have the same diffrent patern of growing bark, than my ulmus.....this one is rare....I have seen many ulmus, but no this kind of ulmus.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  landerloos on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:55 pm

Very nice progression Yvonne ThumbsUp ThumbsUp ThumbsUp

Peter

landerloos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:01 am

Hi Peter

Thanks Smile....and with the right pruning should the taper improve ower the years...so maybe they will end up being nice shohin....lets see what happens. Hope has the collor of spring.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  akhater on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:57 pm

it's spring, maybe an updated on these ones leafing out ?

Do they grow fast ? does the trunk thicken well in pots?
thanks

akhater
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:09 am

Hi Akhater

Thanks for your interest....It does depend a LOT, on how the trees are being pruned, or cut back, that give the taper and sice.
Theese ulmus are best kept in the small pot, as they do not like to have large roots cut back.

When looking at the photo from last year, can I see a diffrence, it has become a bit more mature....keeping the lowest branch stronger than the next in line, and so on, will lead to a nice taper, and if all the unvanted buds is removed as soon as they appear too.


On this one can I do a little more...the two lowest arrows, is pointing at buds buds by the base, on good spots for sice-adding...they will improove the taper....the arrow in the top is a planned new branch, from a bud I have kept...close to all other unwanted buds is gone...also from the trunk in the front is a new branch up the trunk planned.


This one is being worked on...only on the flat photo does it look like two trunks with an inverted taper, that does not please me, I am thinking about using the backside as the front, as from here, is there no problem on a photo. I have decided nothing yet.

I return with the last two trees......



Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:20 am

The next two trees.....

This one will have some serious cut back on the trunk abowe the third branch.


The last tree, is being treated as the other trees..
If they have improoved enough during one year, will I leave up to the viewer...I will just keep on working on them, as I have great fun Smile
I have 6 more trees of this kind, on a younger stage...if interest, I may show them during the summer.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  akhater on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:03 pm

Thank you Yvonne for the great usual input,

One more question please, when you say "cutting" you mean that they actually started very thin or they were large cuttings?

akhater
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:57 am

Hi Akhater

The cutting were very thin Smile

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  akhater on Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:56 am

very very promising bounce bounce

thanks

akhater
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:09 am

I have turned the 3-trunked Little shohin, and given it a new pot, to speed up the growth

There is notting like using homemade small trees in a display  Smile Hope the summer will be nice, as I could really use a ready tree with this direction in a shelfdisplay later this summer.

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:24 am

2 and a half growing season has gone since the first Photos on page 1.
Two of the trees is beginning to look like bonsai now...

The latest pruning has made the crown fuse like I have ben waiting for...The small tree is a kind of finished now, and can go in a smaller pot for the future growth...it is standing13.5 cm tall  Smile 


This ones crown is fusing more up, the two trunks are quit thin, but sacrificebranches kept again and again will make it better...as soon as the crown on the backside has closed up, can the tree be used in a display  Smile 
I have heard some worry about the stone, that it will strangle the tree with time....I am sure it will just brake, as the stone is not massive...I have seen photos of small trees that broke their stone...it look quit powerfull and interesting to me , so I will be happy when/if the tree finaly brake the stone....this tree is 13 cm tall, and a smaller pot will soon be nice  Smile 

Kind regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  evanB on Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:50 am

I really like all of these. Thanks very much for sharing and updating every so often.

evanB
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  M. Frary on Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:24 pm

Hate to bring up the name deal again but these trees look like Catlin elm to me. They're next leaf size up from seiju. Your trees also have bark just like my seiju Chinese elm. All are cultivars of regular old Chinese elm. I understood that nire only means elm in Japanese.

M. Frary
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Guest on Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:35 pm

Hi Evan

Many thanks...Some times I wonder if I update to often....but then a reply like this turn up in this topic, and in other topics of mine, and I continue the story  Smile 

Hi Frary

If it was possible to change a title on a topic, would I have done it long ago...if you look back in this topic can you see we all know it is Ulmus parvifolia...I have no knowledge of Seiju or catlin, so I cant offer you a answer...maybe someone else who have read the topic want to say more about this issue.

Kind  regards Yvonne

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  davtree on Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:31 pm

It is not catlin elm. Catlin has smooth bark.

davtree
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: 5 Ulmus Nire cuttings facing 5th. growingseason

Post  Sponsored content Today at 2:16 am


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum