PAYBACK TIME

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  coh on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:18 am

Mark wrote:The "seedlings" and "cuttings" and "air layers" have all grown up! I just finished helping Bill with class and then doing the tango in the moon light with most of them. I am really appreciating Shohin Bonsai more and more every day!
Mark
My cranky back might be pushing me in that direction as well...

I love the fact that so many of these trees have been grown from seedlings, cuttings, and air layers. So much for those who say you can't do it that way (or that it's not worth starting with anything less than field grown or collected stock)!

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  marcus watts on Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:51 am

superb - a lifetime of credit goes to your nurseryman skills...if the cuttings are this good what do all the parents look like now I wonder?.

Did you do anything special with the deshojo cuttings - bottom heat, humidity hard, semi ripe or soft wood cuttings? . Or was it a case of just trying to root the pruning 'spares' from another tree and get back what decides to make roots ?

cheers Marcus

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:43 pm

I completely agree with Marcus here. Wonderful collection, Bill.

I'll be doing the happy dance myself this weekend with my Raintrees. Low of 47 tonight, 40 tomorrow night and 44 Saturday night. Might be a great night for a fire.

Have a great week!!!
Sam

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  xuan le on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:24 pm

Yeah we have strange weather this year, here in Northern Virginia some days we had above 70 degrees (F) and at night the temperature dropped near freezing

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:39 am

Bill,

It's an interesting perspective - what percentage of a collection is imported vs otherwise trees. Of my 200 + trees, I believe that only 5 of them originated in Asia - from Japan 3 JBP, and a shohin pyracantha and a shohin Premna from Taiwan. (The premna has gone on to spawn hundreds of cuttings)
I do have a couple of trees that originated in Puerto Rico. The rest of my collection is native or grown from cuttings or seeds.

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Flosty on Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:15 pm

Hi William,
What a wonderful collection of maples,and great to see the origins of these trees
Do you have any photos throughout the years of these, it would be great to see how they have progressed
I too have never had any luck striking deshojo cuttings or even airlayers what is the secret?
Thanks for posting Very Happy

Flosty
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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Todd Ellis on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:10 am

Thank you for posting Bill. I am amazed at the beauty in your nursery. The Deshojo (?) the red maple in the shallow blue pot is incredible. Your huge wisteria is a monster! I bet its stunning in full bloom; worth the effort to take in and out. Thanks to your labor and insight, I have decided to put a heater around my maples tonight; forecast is upper 20's to 30 degrees. Luckily there is a breeze so the frost will have a hard time establishing itself. I brought in my Geisha (A. palmatum) - buds just starting to open and some flowers showing, and two recently potted - weak on their roots - Chinese Elms. I don't want to take chances with them. Everyone else is on their own Very Happy .
Again, beautiful trees! BTW, the Dwarf Winter Hazel I bought from you was a site to behold; so many blossoms! I styled it into a nice clump.
Best,
Todd

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  marcus watts on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:41 am

Come on Bill.............. Very Happy
You were nice and quick to defend the parentage but several members are asking about your propogation methods to get in particular the deshojo cuttings through to maturity, lets turn this thread into something to learn from..........I'd love to know about the parent Deshojo - was it a mature bonsai or young garden graft , whether the cuttings were hard, soft, semi ripe, how many you succeeded with and if the young trees were put in the field to fatten up.

They are tricky to do on their own roots so any hints will be well accepted and appreciated - we are worthy !! Wink .

Rob - 200 trees, wow that takes some maintaining - I sold half my junipers because just the 6 big ones needed so many hours wiring & thinning. It is interesting the percentages of imports in our collections - but a lot depends on government policies - if it is made so incredibly hard to import trees that they are rare and expensive the 'home produced' market will be so much stronger. The only thing keeping all our countries home produced (grown not dug up) trees from ultimate greatness atm is a few decades more work as none are actually that old in the big scheme of things.

cheers Marcus

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Rob Kempinski on Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:34 pm

marcus watts wrote:Rob - 200 trees, wow that takes some maintaining - I sold half my junipers because just the 6 big ones needed so many hours wiring & thinning. It is interesting the percentages of imports in our collections - but a lot depends on government policies - if it is made so incredibly hard to import trees that they are rare and expensive the 'home produced' market will be so much stronger. The only thing keeping all our countries home produced (grown not dug up) trees from ultimate greatness atm is a few decades more work as none are actually that old in the big scheme of things.

cheers Marcus

Yes Marcus, lots of work, I've posted photos of most of them over the years. When I'm home I spend at least an hour a day working on trees and lots of weekends. Luckily I don't watch TV. My approach is more along the lines of letting the trees develop into a design - I use a lot of wire but also a lot of clip and grow.
A large percentage of my collection is shohin - in addition to being small, they take less space, less time to work on and are just so cute!!!
Being a nerd I keep a database of my collection. Here is a distribution of the sizes. Total is a bit over 200 but I am not counting hundreds of cutting and seedlings I am developing Laughing Even still, I'd like to get another 100 shohin. When making a display you really need a good assortment to pick from to make sure they work together, are in optimum condition, and have not been shown recently.


marcus watts wrote:It is interesting the percentages of imports in our collections - but a lot depends on government policies - if it is made so incredibly hard to import trees that they are rare and expensive the 'home produced' market will be so much stronger. The only thing keeping all our countries home produced (grown not dug up) trees from ultimate greatness atm is a few decades more work as none are actually that old in the big scheme of things.

cheers Marcus

The few decades of work is perhaps the most impressive thing I gleamed from the two national bonsai shows that Bill Valvanis has sponsored. There are many bonsai artists in America that have been doing bonsai for 2 or 3 or 4 decades that don't post trees on line but they had them at Bill's show. The trees shown truly depicted refinement from those years of work. I am not certain I can make that observation about other shows I have visited in other western areas in the US and Europe.

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Orion on Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:05 pm

marcus watts wrote:It is interesting the percentages of imports in our collections - but a lot depends on government policies - if it is made so incredibly hard to import trees that they are rare and expensive the 'home produced' market will be so much stronger. The only thing keeping all our countries home produced (grown not dug up) trees from ultimate greatness atm is a few decades more work as none are actually that old in the big scheme of things.

cheers Marcus

In England, what would you guess the percentage of imports is in relation to homegrown (not dug up), especially with maples and junipers? I've seen many posted where the owners state that their particular tree was imported. Do you guys have a good source of growers in your neck of the woods?

John

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  drgonzo on Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:13 pm

I definitely think the restrictions on importing are easier overseas then in the USA. Anyone in Europe can also receive any tree from the entire EU which gives a great variety and resource base. I have only three imports in my collection. The USA restrictions are pretty severe.

-Jay

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  marcus watts on Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:26 am

Orion wrote:
In England, what would you guess the percentage of imports is in relation to homegrown (not dug up), especially with maples and junipers? I've seen many posted where the owners state that their particular tree was imported. Do you guys have a good source of growers in your neck of the woods?

John

Hi John,
With the shimpaku junipers in the Uk the ones worthy of show are basically all imported -trees from shohin to the medium & large trees with natural deadwood were coming into the UK since the early 1970's. Very few actual show ready specimen trees come into the UK to my knowledge (other than shohin and one ot two well off collectors who may buy directly via agents )- these imports are mostly material trees that are established in pots but largely unrefined. From the trees I see on my travels much of the great material was originally imported by Danny Use of Ginko Bonsai Center in Belgium and over the years several bonsai nurserymen from the UK visit and choose trees directly from there. Other good material comes via a very small number of traders that visit overseas and import containers of trees after QT etc. There are basically no field growers in the UK with good quality large semi trained & weathered juniper material with heavy curves, wide bases etc - although large landscape junipers in tubs are available (imported from Holland!) The few juniper rigidas we have are all imported too, mostly as 1/2 done bonsai. I'd say the 'better trees' we have are 95% imported material but styled here, the normal workshop and play about material is garden center (EU import) or from basic nursery grow beds.

this is a material juniper from Ginko in 2008

and this was the tree 2 days ago, just the upper carving to finish


The acers..........Much the same - good 'true variety' specimen trees are virtually all imported, it is down to the trunk base and root flare and if it is perfect the tree was sourced in Japan. There are a few growing beds of Deshojos and palmatums here and there where the trees are getting some top pruning to make them bonsai material but the real skill is in making a tapered trunk with perfect root flare and this isnt happening here yet. When you actually study the acer pictures that started this thread closely you can see that even these lovely trees have room for improvement in the trunk bases, taper and visible rootage (but really nice branches) and this is a similar case here. Because the acers in the UK are easily available there are more garden center sourced trees in collections and lots of small, starter and workshop trees that are UK grafts and seedlings. I think at least 95% of the maples in bonsai collections are home grown but at better shows 75% will be imported material.

here are trunk bases of imported trees -this one is a perfect graft

and this clump was formed in the 1930's (came to UK in 82 as semi specimen)


cheers Marcus


Last edited by marcus watts on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Poink88 on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:54 pm

Marcus.

Looking at the juniper's 2nd/latest pic...it looked like the "vein" was totally carved or terminated near the top w/o anything to feed there. Is this just on the pic (an illusion)?

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Orion on Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:33 pm

Marcus,

Really nice trees and interesting info.

Orion
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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  marcus watts on Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:55 pm

Poink88 wrote:Marcus.

Looking at the juniper's 2nd/latest pic...it looked like the "vein" was totally carved or terminated near the top w/o anything to feed there. Is this just on the pic (an illusion)?

Hi Dario, its not the vein at the top of the trunk but the start of my carving - the heart wood on these junipers is red, like the vein and the carving was alongside the living vein.
Here is a picture from this morning after i finished carving last night and the LS has dried


cheers

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:05 pm

marcus watts wrote:
Poink88 wrote:Marcus.

Looking at the juniper's 2nd/latest pic...it looked like the "vein" was totally carved or terminated near the top w/o anything to feed there. Is this just on the pic (an illusion)?

Hi Dario, its not the vein at the top of the trunk but the start of my carving - the heart wood on these junipers is red, like the vein and the carving was alongside the living vein.
Here is a picture from this morning after i finished carving last night and the LS has dried


cheers

Nice pads and trunk. Which way does the trunk lean? In the photo it appears to be leaning away from the camera making it look unbalanced.

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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  Gary Swiech on Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:33 pm

We "enjoyed" two weeks of summer weather in March, but are now paying for it by moving deciduous bonsai every day for cold protection. These bonsai leafed out and cannot be left in the dark garage, even with supplemental light. So the daily ritual continues until the nighttime temperatures stay above 30F at night. Fortunately my friends and students help me move them at night and my lovely wife helps me move them in the morning. I've spent 45 years training some specimens and do not have the time, nor the energy to start all over again.

Bill

Back to the topic,

I've been practicing bonsai 36 years and have never experienced a Spring like this years.

It's been the same here in Zone 4a-Wisconsin, with the warm March weather and I too tried to keep them dormant in my cold house but with the temps the buds stated to move and
so I starter repotting those that really needed it.

My back won't let me move everything out during the day so I've been selective and for the rest they are getting as much light as possible.

It was 23ºF here last night with a hard freeze warning until Thursday.

Just a very strange Spring. I hope everything makes it through until the warm weather comes back. Our last frost free date is usually around the middle of May.

Good luck to you all in the colder climates.

Gary Swiech
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Re: PAYBACK TIME

Post  marcus watts on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:03 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:
Nice pads and trunk. Which way does the trunk lean? In the photo it appears to be leaning away from the camera making it look unbalanced.

Hi Rob, cheers for your observations.
The trunk runs parallel / level to the viewer up to the point where the vein disapears. Then it sweeps away very sharply (the section where i carved) before coming right back to the viewer. The main trunk is actually one sweeping curve that ends in the bottom pads!. The apex foliage is the only main branch and curves over the top of the section i carved, sitting about level with the root base. The original sharp bend (away) was hidden behind a pad but i decided to invite the viewers eyes into the tree explore the beautiful curve, but as you say it does go away.

This coming winter I'll add this tree to the car for a 2 day workshop with Ryan Neil and I am looking forward to recieving advice from someone who has spent 6 years in Kimuras garden working with this type of material.

cheers Marcus

EDIT 24 hrs later - thanks again Rob, as a real in the flesh tree it looked great, as a flat photo tree it looked 'disappearing' away..... a simple 2" wooden wedge at the back has worked wonders - the 'going away' section is now upright and the apex is closer than the pot edge. It has made the trunk base much wider too Very Happy so I just need to level up all the pads as they slope forward atm. Then a gentle repot to line it all up.

Thanks again for the comment, it got me tweaking cheers

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