When to chop Maple?

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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:57 pm

Not sure if you can see the bud too clearly in this picture, but it's there all right....

Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:20 pm

Now, could I rotate the tree back and allow that bud to be more on top so that it becomes the new leader? You can see where it is on the trunk in the attached picture below...

Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Nemphis on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:22 pm

Ryan wrote:Not sure if you can see the bud too clearly in this picture, but it's there all right....

There is a green bug in your picture here.

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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:26 pm

Nemphis wrote:
Ryan wrote:Not sure if you can see the bud too clearly in this picture, but it's there all right....

There is a green bug in your picture here.

Yep, that's just some harmless little bug.

Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  bucknbonsai on Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:06 am

dont move anything...just leave it alone for now and for the rest of the year to. And besides why rush into it based off 1 bud, there will be more to come. If you it tilted it back, think about what that would do to your nebari, it would lift them up out of the soil at a weird angle.

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Hi Ryal

Post  tap pi lu on Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:49 am


You can use the candle to melt to cover cuts. I think it is clean and not harm
How you think.
If it is me. I will not cut at that point that will cut at the point below it

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  William N. Valavanis on Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:11 pm

Just saw this thread and thought I'd share some things I've learned during the past 40 years of working with Trident maples.

First, the correct term is "drastic pruning" not trunk chop...

I have discovered, by trial and error, the best time to drastic prune deciduous species for bonsai is in early spring, just as the leaves are unfolding for best results. It's best to both prune the trunk AND the roots at the best time. This only shocks the plant once, rather than "playing with it" and shocking the plant again, later during the growing season (cutting it down further) or in the future when cutting the roots back further.

Looking at the photos of Ryan's Trident maple I have a few honest and constructive comments too:

1. Trunk was pruned at the correct height, using the correct horizontal cut for the trunk size. Was the trunk washed? It's important to completely wash the trunk to eliminate old bark to allow fresh air and light to stimulate new adventitious buds to grow. Don't worry if you see any buds there at that time, just wash.

2. The roots were NOT correctly pruned. Only the top surface roots should be allowed to remain, with any fibrous roots attached to them. ALL others should have been pruned. Then washed. The washing done was not complete. It's important when drastic pruning to eliminate ALL original soil, so a coarse soil with lists of air space will stimulate and encourage new fibrous roots.

3. The container is WAY too large and not necessary, in fact, it's not good to have all that extra soil around the small trunk. A training container about 1/3 of that size would be better. Depth is fine, deeper is better to encourage a more vigorous root growth.

4. I did not notice any tree wound covering over the two wounds, trunk and large surface root. It's important to completely seal to prevent the wound from drying out. Also, the surface root wound should be pointed at top to promote quicker covering of the callus tissue. This wound should completely cover by mid-summer if done correctly.

5. If this were my tree, I would start over again, it's only been a few weeks and unpotting, washing the trunk and roots, pruning the roots will not damage the tree if done now. Then I would pot the stump in a more coarse soil mixture (just mix in chicken grit or coarse turface) in a smaller container. A round shape is much better than a rectangular container for training.

Several years ago I published an entire issue of International BONSAI on drastic pruning including two articles from Japan and Walter Pall. Also included is my article on "Creating Deciduous Bonsai By Drastic Pruning" complete with photos of each step. Let me look up the issue. OK, found it. the issue on drastic pruning is International BONSAI 2002/NO. 3. Guess it was a bit longer than a few years ago, I'm getting old. Photos of my techniques will appear in my forthcoming book to be released next June 2013 at the International Bonsai Colloquium here in Rochester commemorating my 50 year of bonsai study.

Attached are a few photos of a few of my Trident maples created using the techniques I've described above.

I'd be very interested to see photos of the bonsai created by all the people offering their suggestions, opinions and theory for "Trunk Chopping"....

Bill


After root pruning Trident maple


A few growing seasons later


Early spring, before trimming


Autumn view


Winter view


Summer view


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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  bucknbonsai on Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:14 pm

William thank you so much for this information, cant wait for your book, will it be available on the internet? Your excellent post brought up a few other questions, and Im sorry to bug you with them as I know your busy, its just nice to have such an experienced expert chime in on our posts.
1- How do you wash the trunk and roots? (scrub brush, soapy water?)
2- How do you tell when its done being washed?
3- Why is a round container better than a rectangle for growing out material? (wouldnt that just enable circling of roots)
4- Do you believe in root maker pots?
5- You say you do drastic pruning of top and bottom at same time in spring (I do as well), but say for whatever reason on
stuff in the ground you end up doing hard pruning in the spring of just the top without messing with the roots, will that
make the stump bleed out?
6- What is your opinion on callous tissue that results from spring drastic pruning of top growth (some people out there say
summer is better for the purposes of callous tissue)
thank you

bucknbonsai
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Fore on Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:00 pm

First off Bill, that's a beautiful Maple!! Very nice!

And I too am curious about how much to scrub the trunk.

Fore
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:52 pm

I haven't done anything with this guy but let it recover. It's now got a second bud down on one of the roots, interesting.



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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Fore on Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:59 pm

Mine is doing the exact same thing Ryan! Interesting how it'll go from a bare bark, to a tiny bump, to a bud in a relatively short period of time! Did you follow Bill's advice and repot it in a smaller container?

Fore
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:45 pm

Fore wrote:Mine is doing the exact same thing Ryan! Interesting how it'll go from a bare bark, to a tiny bump, to a bud in a relatively short period of time! Did you follow Bill's advice and repot it in a smaller container?

It is pretty neat! I haven't done anything to it. It's still growing along in the same ol' container and seems to be happy.

Ryan
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hi Ryal

Post  tap pi lu on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:29 pm

Ryan wrote:I haven't done anything with this guy but let it recover. It's now got a second bud down on one of the roots, interesting.


well, let's nurture them to grow,
later to transplant the tree to go through
when the other side lack of branches.

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Rui Marques on Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:59 pm

Remove the bud in nebari. it will remove the of the upper ones.

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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:15 pm

Rui Marques wrote:Remove the bud in nebari. it will remove the of the upper ones.

So, I should remove the buds that sprout on the nebari, got it, thanks!

Here are some new shots of the tree, I haven't removed the buds mentioned yet:


Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Rui Marques on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:42 pm

Please, show us all the buds.

In my opinion you should remove the 2 lower buds, so that the energy directs to the upper ones.

Rui Marques
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Hi Ryal

Post  tap pi lu on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:21 pm

I think this:
[img][/img]

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:04 pm

tap pi lu wrote:I think this:
[img][/img]

Interesting idea, thanks!

Here is another shot showing all of the buds circled in green:


And here is the back of the tree, there are a few buds back there too:

Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Wed May 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Today:




Ryan
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  lordy on Wed May 09, 2012 5:02 pm

Bustin' out all over. Looking good. That dog wants it. See that look in his eyes? That's trouble I tell ya.

lordy
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Dave Murphy on Wed May 09, 2012 10:53 pm

Growing well, Ryan. It might be a good idea to add a bit more soil to the nebari to cover up those shallow roots. Good luck.

Dave Murphy
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  tap pi lu on Thu May 10, 2012 8:34 am

Ryan wrote:Today:





ay ay ayza.... I can not imagine. the branch was too longyou need to learn more cutting experience.

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  tap pi lu on Thu May 10, 2012 8:37 am

doing so would stimulate more new buds. don't get too 3 inch

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

Post  Ryan on Thu May 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Hmm shouldn't I let it grow out for a while to thicken it before cutting it back?

Ryan
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Hi Ryal

Post  tap pi lu on Fri May 11, 2012 2:40 am

well this is necessary and continuously while the development tree.It helps the tree out more new buds and the distance of the buds will close together, so the tree will dwarf down.

tap pi lu
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Re: When to chop Maple?

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