When is a shohin no longer a shohin

View previous topic View next topic Go down

When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:52 am

This Willow Leaf Fig (Ficus nerifolia) has been growing in this pot for the past 5 or 6 years. The roots are starting to conform to the pot so it's time for a big decision = put it in a larger pot and let the roots continue to expand beyond shohin size or find another suitable shohin pot and trim the roots trying to keep it a shohin.


The trunk has fattened nicely and now takes up a larger portion of the front to rear distance in the pot. (BTW I made this pot).


If I place this in a larger pot then the tree will capitalize on the extra space and soon outgrow its shohin dimensions.
Roots are definitely crowded.


Out of the pot.

Close up of the roots

Bottom of root pad.


First try, trying to squeeze it into a shohin silver slipper (made by John Ptt). Looks very tight.


The root pad is resting on the top edge of the back of the pot. Why do I see one of Cinderella's sisters trying to wedge a fat foot into the glass slipper? Twisted Evil


How about this blue pot by Bellota Pottery (Paul Katich) of Jacksonville. Fits no problem. The tree would like this pot and probably really grow.

Maybe this brown pot from a European potter that uses a beetle as a chop (can't recall the name of the potter)

Plenty of room in this pot for the roots to grow.


How about this Chinese magma and lava rectangle pot. Similar dimensions to the brown pot.

Here's a shallow Sara Rayner, USA, square pot. Plenty of room for the root pad.

View from above the Sara Rayner pot.


OK, which would you choose?????

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Orion on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:00 am

I like the Katich pot, but I'm not crazy over the color.

Orion
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  DJSEND on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:05 am

I like the Katich pot best for fit and I do like the color as well.

Cheers,
~ Jay

DJSEND
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Mitch Thomas on Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:25 pm

Rob
IMHO I prefer the Sara Raynor pot the best, with the beetle chop a very close second. Why? Hum, I guess the Paul katitch is very nice but I wish the blue was more of a pastel color. I think the blue is to over powering for this tree. The contrast between the pot and tree is to great and distracts me. Also I think it's still a little small. With the SR pot I like the negitive space between the nabari and the pot rim and also the earth tone glaze works better for me.

As far as the other question when is a shohin not a shohin? Well I guess when it's larger than the 9 to 10 suggested size. In my opinion you are coming close to sumo if it is not chopped soon or just go up to the next standard size. What would that be? Also to me shohin has a different set of standards as far as proportions and branch placement. This aspect alone may push you up to the next classification. Definitely food for tought.

Mitch

Mitch Thomas
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  yorasta on Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:17 pm

the silver slipper (made by John Ptt) dis is the 1 color of the trunk matches with the pot ThumbsUp

yorasta
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  marcus watts on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:10 pm

Beetle chop european brown one for me.

I think a large percentage of shohin eventually move up in size - while you can reduce and regrow branches for many years you can't stop the trunk and nebari getting bigger and, as you show us here, eventually the lower tree is too big to make a true shohin tree. The highest quality chuhin trees I've seen are all grown up shohin ones due to the branch quality and beautiful attention to detail

Cheers Marrcus

marcus watts
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Todd Ellis on Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:06 pm

Sara Rayner is my 1st choice. The Silver Slipper and Magma/lave are a tie for me. Great choices and
lovely tree Rob!
Todd

Todd Ellis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  JimLewis on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:01 pm

Of course, I'd always vote for keeping it small.

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:12 pm

BTW, can anyone recognize this chop and distinctive pot hole? I know I should have paid more attention when I bought the pot - I think I got it at the Czech show in Prague.



Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:14 pm

This is a close up of the flower in the background - in case you were wondering. A native iris. Unfortunately the flowers only last for a day or so and then are gone.


Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:29 pm

I prefer the Sara Rayner pot because it allows a more correct placement, slightly off center and to the rear, the others would restrict you to another dead center placement.

Billy M. Rhodes
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Glaucus on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:38 pm

Shohin is below 30cm but above 15cm. At least for azalea. Categories are very well defined.

The size of the pot is selected to match the size of the tree. It should feel balanced. If the pot is too narrow, it will give the suggestion of the tree toppling over. If it is too wide, if will give the idea of the tree being too small. Same goes for depth. Ratio of dimensions is crucial here.

I don't think a brown pot(or rather a shade too close to the colour of the bark) for a decidious tree is a good idea. When there is no green, there are no colours at all. There should be some colour contrast if it is supposed to be shown in fall.


Last edited by Glaucus on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:51 pm; edited 3 times in total

Glaucus
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:42 pm

Glaucus wrote:Shohin is below 30cm but above 15cm. At least for azalea. Categories are very well defined.

The size of the pot is selected to match the size of the tree. It should feel balanced. If the pot is too narrow, it will give the suggestion of the tree toppling over. If it is too wide, if will give the idea of the tree being too small. Same goes for depth. Ratio of dimensions is crucial here.
Hi Glaucus,

The quesiton was not really a matter of size but when to let a tree continue to grow to leave the shohin size category.


Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:49 pm

For this tree, I decided to try to keep the tree a shohin (at least for a few more years) and to constrain the size by trimming the roots and by using the smallest pot that still had some room for the roots to spread. In a year or two, hopefully the roots will adopt a more oval shape. Therefore, I chose the John Pitt shallow oval. Ficus nerifolia can readily handle very shallow pots, heck they could probably live without soil.





Final image with soil and fertilizer


Thanks for the input.

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  JimLewis on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:04 am

Good decision!

_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

JimLewis
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  marcus watts on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:53 am

Glaucus wrote:Shohin is below 30cm but above 15cm. At least for azalea. Categories are very well defined

I see 25cm quoted a lot more for entries to shohin bonsai displays these days, (tree above soil) and talking to the real enthusiasts this is very much seen as the upper size limit - almost like trying to squeeze a few more years out of a tree that is ready to move onwards and upwards.

this tree still is in a sumo type proportion so looks ok squeezed in the little pot, but once the trunk base fattens a bit more the shohin days are gone and it will be ready to make a jump up in height and width - i think this is equally important as a chuhin tree 1cm into the catagory just looks like an overgrown shohin!

nice pot for the little tree, keep the bug one for a few years ttime

cheers Marcus


marcus watts
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  will baddeley on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:09 am

Sizes of tree really aren't that precise and Shohin fits into that theory too. Shohin is as much about the feel of a small tree as it is about size. Shame that Mark and Ritta Cooper is in Japan at the moment as he is far more articulate on this subject

will baddeley
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Andreasdeutscher on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Rob, pot was made by Martin AĊĦenbrenner, czech potter and bonsai enthusiast.

Andreasdeutscher
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:56 am

Andreasdeutscher wrote:Hi Rob, pot was made by Martin AĊĦenbrenner, czech potter and bonsai enthusiast.

Hi Andreasdeutscher, Thanks for the info. I will make a note of that.
I did use the pot, with a chunky Chinese elm - What we call Drake Elm in Florida. This was collected by a club member a few years ago and sold at our club's annual auction. I made a massive chop and originally had it resting flat (rotated about 35degrees counter clockwise from the first photo.) Since roots were only forming on one side, I hollowed it out and tilted it. A friend named it "The Barnacle."



The before shot several years ago.

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  carlos on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 am

Pardon me for saying so, but I saw a bit more potential before reducing the tree's height.

carlos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:06 am

carlos wrote:Pardon me for saying so, but I saw a bit more potential before reducing the tree's height.

No problem, you want to buy it? Very Happy Very Happy

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  carlos on Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:09 am

Rob Kempinski wrote:
carlos wrote:Pardon me for saying so, but I saw a bit more potential before reducing the tree's height.

No problem, you want to buy it? Very Happy Very Happy

not really

carlos
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:19 am

carlos wrote:
Rob Kempinski wrote:
carlos wrote:Pardon me for saying so, but I saw a bit more potential before reducing the tree's height.

No problem, you want to buy it? Very Happy Very Happy

not really

Shucks, I figured you could grow it in the ground for 5 or 10 years and recapture its potential. Oh well.

Rob Kempinski
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Orion on Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:54 am

The more I look at it, the more I like that little fatty warts and all.

Orion
Member


Back to top Go down

Re: When is a shohin no longer a shohin

Post  Sponsored content Today at 10:28 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum