chop it down or not?

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chop it down or not?

Post  marcus watts on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:03 pm

Hi, This is a very slow growing Acer palmatum mikawa yatsubusa that i've had about 10 years

The tree will airlayer with 100% success rate (i've done the top twice now) and will produce a great many buds from all branches and main trunk after pruning or defoliating. The straight bit annoys me now and the lower branches have only grown about 5" in 10 years, In leaf it looks ok, but in winter it can be made much better. There are some stunners on s-cube from time to time so it can be done Very Happy

There are one, two or three trees to be made / kept here but I'm interested to see how others see it with fresh eyes as i've almost looked at it too much to have a clear plan !

tree in leaf


tree bare, all sides



And buds everywhere


Any ideas greatfully recieved

cheers Marcus


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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  RKatzin on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:35 pm

Hi Marcus, for what it's worth, I think you have a nice tree and a nice raft piece if in the first pic you air-layer the right side and regrow a new lower branch from the stump. I see six little trees on the raft to start with. I have a few maples developed the same way and I'm at the same crossroad with them, too. One is a Hupps Dwarf and I'm leary of taking the top out of it, in ten years it hasn't made two feet, but it's got the same bean pole up the middle. I'm anxious to see what others suggest. Rick

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:23 pm

Hello Marcus,
Only some quick drawings how it would look like with another starting point, no advise.
Sunip Wink
[/url[url=https://servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=202&u=16274585]

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  abcd on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:12 pm

if i change something, i will bend the head off the father trunk on the front off the tree on that face ,the heads of trees, father and son , should look in the same direction to give depth . Why do you want to change another thing , it's a beautiful tree ?
[img][/img]

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  DangerousBry on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:25 pm



Hi Marcus...

It all depends on how drastic you want to cut. I can see a small tree in there!!!

Cut right trunk off, grow a branch. Cut left trunk to first back branch as leader. If its a prolific grower as you suggest it maybe a good looking small tree in a few years...
Just a though =)

Cheers Bryan

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  sunip on Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:41 pm

Hello Bryan,
Something like this?
Sunip


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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  Seth Ellwood on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:36 am

I vote air layer the right for a raft of do what I do and just cut and discard.Keep the left side and develop that while healing the cut.Take it out of the bonsai pot and put it in to a LARGE growing box to heal the right side faster.I think it would make an awesome tree but what you currently have is an ok tree. just my 2c.

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  drgonzo on Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:49 am

marcus
I see potential for at least two air layers, that could easily be removed, packed in a shoebox and sent to upstate NY and simply labeled as "cookies"..
-Jay

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chop it down or not

Post  moyogijohn on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:34 am

Only my opion,,I would chop the right trunk and make a very nice tree with the left trunk.. if you like layering do that then chop... me i never have done it... the left is a good tree with a little wireing...my 2 cents !! take care john

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  coh on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:25 am

The "v" and the long straight segments in the current front view are going to be tough to work around. I actually like the view in your second (bare) photo. Maybe layer off the top of both trunks, leaving just the lowest branch (that comes forward) and re-grow the top. Something like this? Hard to tell without seeing the actual tree in person. Tree would be roughly half the height of the current tree.



Last edited by coh on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:37 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  drgonzo on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:36 am

Heres where I would move with the tree.
Layer at the double green lines, wire up the red arrow branch as a new leader, making the tree much shorter, and wider than it is tall. Oh yeah and pray for back buds!

-Jay

Ps. You could probably write "old socks" on the shoebox, maybe that would be better than "cookies"....

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  coh on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:38 am

Another possibility - use the current front, cut the right trunk way back and re-grow completely. Tree shorter by about 1/4.


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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  newzealandteatree on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:20 am

Marcus, u have a nice charming tree. This tree has good potential. All u need is time and good care for it to grow and mature. Fatten the trunk and grow the branch ramifications. In another 10 years u will have a winner.

Cheers, CJ.

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  marcus watts on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:25 am

THANKYOU ALL so far.........

Trying to pass on my thoughts as to why the tree needs change . 1) Keeping the same....The tree is great in leaf but poor in winter due to the thin straight trunk with thin branches all on the same side

There is a great small tree to be made I agree, the lower trunk taper is good, the roots and nebari spread into the soil nicely and the shorter trunk has all the interest. I will airlayer rather than discard as this is a fairly rare and unusual variety and the raft planting will be the ideal use for the long trunk. (I'm happy to root a little one from the top and send it in with the flood of Christmas post Jay ! Very Happy labelled nativity scene model tree & GIFT santa rendeer !!)

Coh....very nice.
this is funny - after posting the thread yesterday i did a virt of the idea that I felt could work
here it is


I used the side angle so the new crown comes towards us, But I also really like your second virt - that is making the most of the trunk base and is a really good powerfull maple image. looking at the tree I can aim (hope) to get the required buds in the right places from removing the long trunk to grow the new right hand branch, and if the buds dont form the other design is still totally possible.

Thankyou all again,

Marcus






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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  hungbonsai on Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:09 am

originally my design, the watch collection

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:20 am

Thanks again everyone for the ideas
i think all the designs using the base of the long trunk to grow a new branch are the best looking ones. It is interesting we all used the same 'front'. I just did this with the back to get the movement the other way. The good thing about the tree is it will make many buds so the chances are we can achieve the virtuals this time.



As soon as the buds wake i'll layer the long trunk

cheers Marcus

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  coh on Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:53 pm

I'll be very interested to see how long it takes to re-grow that branch/side to get the image to look coherent. Keep us updated!

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Re: chop it down or not?

Post  marcus watts on Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:49 pm

coh wrote:I'll be very interested to see how long it takes to re-grow that branch/side to get the image to look coherent. Keep us updated!

yes you're right, not a fast tree by any means - there are two ways to go - super feeeding and big box or ground for about 3 years, then another 3 or 4 in a pot again or keeping it potted & grafting in some of the airlayered branches from the spare trunk, plus any thread grafts i can get through - they are really easy! Wink once the layers have their own roots they will attach pretty much where ever we need them. My Beni maiko had virtually all the main branches grafted in place it appears.

trees like this are ones to keep plodding away at in the background until, after 20 years, you realise how nice the've ended up.

cheers all,

Marcus

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Re: chop it down or not?

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