My foreign stones

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Hi Yvonne... This stone's natural texture randomly distributed spots is very appealing to me. It both assures the natural surface of the stone and evokes the natural dappling seen on fruit skin or in the understory light/shade of a forest. I'm looking for similar surface texture in other stones (published or in my stock of stones and photos of stones). It isn't common. The nashijihada "pear skin" often associated with Setagawa stones refers to miniscule pores where mica particles separated from the stones surface.

Since it sits upright on its natural base, you might consider placing it in a shallow, unglazed suiban with no sand to allow its natural bottom to be appreciated. Does it have enough depth (front to back) to appear natural as a mountain view without its height being shortened by sand depth? Peter's recommendation for a daiza is surprising to me. Extending the sides of the daiza outward & placing feet at the extremities is very sculptural. A daiza should never complete the image of the suiseki. For figure stones, a daiza might sculpturally represent a separate natural object on which the figure is placed, but also never completes the figure.

Peter's illustrated daiza not only completes the mountain-foot as a sculptural addition (not a Japanese-style daiza option) but also suggest a thinness which makes your natural, uncut stone look cut. Please create a daiza deep enough to suggest a natural bottom to the stone. The daiza could grasp the stone on its underside, only, and not completely wrap around the undercurving ends. This would allow a thinner, less massive daiza which meanders along subtle curves of the stone's natural perimeter. The caveat to that working is that the stone must be deep enough from front-to-back that it appears natural as a landscape view. Ideally, the front side and backside have different slopes so that the from overhead, the stones' ridgeline does not bisect the stone equally.

When introducing this stone, you referenced it as "Setagawa stone (Tokyoriver)." It is not from the Tokyo area if a Setagawa suiseki. The Setagawa/"Seta River" is east-southeast of Kyoto. It begins at the southern end of Lake Biwa (at the Seta weir, which controls flooding) & continues soutward until flowing into the Uji river. A river dam completed in the mid 1960's flooded the area where stones had been collected previously.

You note plans for indoor aging, and I hope that it does not include burnishing lightly with handcream. This appears to be a water-aged stone appropriate for suiban display so it should only be rubbed with a dry cloth to retain a water retentive patina that is largely established by outdoor weathering. If the stone's patina is rough, it probably needs to slowly rebuild patina by further weathering-- roughness (open pores) is a stage which new stones must go through before building patina. I agree with you that the stone should not be left in standing water for aging. The stone appears neither aged (capable of holding breath on its surface) nor particularly rough. You can assess it better than we can assess it in a photo.

A daiza supporting the stone from just underneath its perimeter...


Last edited by Chris Cochrane on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:27 pm

Hi Chris

So this is the famous pearskin...it is a breathtaking surface.

I dont think Peterbrod was planning the daiza to be that extrem...I took it as a hint of something like the shown examples. And no...I was not planning to make the ends longer.
I had from the beginning planned to follow the underside of the rounded buttom, as you also suggest, as I dont want to hide anything on the stone, and is at the moment planning a rounded soft narrow rim. It is very close to your suggestion. only am I planning 3 feet seen from the front, it is enough, the same on the backside.

When I have "sunk" the stone into the the wood, will I return with a " what now?, please help".

I went away from using handcream, even if it was very nice in the use...handwarm water removes the cream, and leave the stone rough as it was. A real luxurycream Smile.

This stone has very visible sign of many years of only handrubbing, this I also was told..., it had also been inside a house in a dry suiban, the stone is old as suiseki...only last year has it been outside, in a watersuiban.

The stone can be shown in shallow sand, or just without...but maybe I am wrong, and I should mind, people can see it is not compleetely flat...I would just like to showcase the natural ballance of the stone, and would want spectaters to enjoy a natural stone. What do you think of this?.

I had not looked the Setagawa up on the map...I just saw the signs of the direction, in the street in Tokyo, and thought it was near by. Your information is interesting, and I will ofcourse look it up on a map now.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:38 pm

Hi Yvonne... Wil in Japan reported in the California Aiseki Kai's October 2009 newsletter (linked HERE) of the display discipline of the Nagano-area club Sekisui-kai. Does the the rigor of stones suitable for display in these exhibits suit your style?

The club's leader Aizawa-san proposed:
The first and most important thing (is) described as the suwari, or “seat” of the stone. This is a simple, familiar point to anyone who has basic knowledge of suiseki- that the base of the stone should be relatively flat. Beyond not allowing stones to be cut, however, according to the group’s philosophy a stone should be able to sit uprightly on its natural base at the correct angle without any alterations of course, but also without any support, an interesting step beyond the norm which comes out in their exhibitions and will be discussed later.
You should read the entire article to decide if it fits your feeling toward stones. For me, revealing a stone's bottom is very refreshing & challenging for an exhibition. This it the only time I have seen the ubiquitous brown oval suiban with shallow rims used in a serious display, but it is easy to appreciate their use by this particular club. It is very astringent. The modest curve of your stone would look very nice in such a display, IMO, but am not sure how it would be evaluated in Nagano.

Regarding pear-skin, I do not think your stone represents the nashijihada texture which is most commonly known as a Setagawa-ishi texture. That texture is of very fine dots (pores) which recall the sprinkling of pin-point sized gold dust in lacquerware-- which is also referenced as nishijihada. There is a separate lacquering technique called nashijihada where flakes of gold are randomly spread & the lacquer afterward polished. This is called coarse nashijihada because it creates bumps in the lacquer. I have seen Japanese pear with flecked spots on mature fruit. You should speak with others regarding your stone's texture. I think it is outstanding, but I am not aware of its name. I checked several sources & will reply if I find a credible answer.

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:20 pm

Hi Chris

I have also seaked information about the surface of my Setagawa-stone.
I talked to a japanese suisekicollector, and seller. And he informed me this was the " Skin of pears", or "Rihi" as they call it in Japan.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:08 pm

I bought this Youlanstone 39 cm x 17 cm from China 8- or 9 years ago. It was seated in a low lightbrown camphordaiza, who was hiding the "toes" and did not really reach the buttom of this natural stone.

I always wanted to make a new daiza, and now is it done. I hope you like it....The stone is straight, and to me does the stone have two fronts. I like both....and turn it inbetween.

Still exotic wood, but not as hard as usual....not easy to work with.





Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Chris Cochrane on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:53 pm

Your stand captures the feeling of movement in the landscape wonderfully. Great mounting!

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:51 pm

Thank you Chris. I am happy and encouraged.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  sunip on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 pm

Hello Yvonne,
Nice stone and nice chinese embroidery on the wall.
The design of the seat was not easy i imagine, anyway the seat seems fine to me,
its has some movement.
I was curious how it would look like with less movement so i played a little with the feet,
i am not decided yet which i like best.
Sunip Wink


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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:38 pm

Kamogawa ishi

This is the "Sitting lady" I found in the water of the Kamoriver in Kyoto...she is a yellow jasper, and is sitting 11 cm. tall in her new daiza carved by me. I hope you like her Smile



Her head and front is best appreciated seen a little from abowe....So, she is placed low in my house



Now I see the side and back looks like a bearded old man...could this side be a better front?

I have some thinking to do now.

Kind regards Yvonne


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Re: My foreign stones

Post  sunip on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:40 am

Hello Yvonne,
For me the front from the first picture with the sitting lady is the strongest image.
The fact that the stone evokes more images, makes it even more interesting and a real viewingstone.
Good seat and the special made tatami under the seat, gives the whole a certain feeling.
I had to think of an old lady who is meditating on here earlier days and remembers her late husband.
Sunip Wink

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:01 am

Hi Sunip

I am happy you like the little suiseki. ( the stone is japanese, so I have no problems with calling it suiseki and daiza Smile ) Like you, I think the "tatamimat" gives a quiet modest feeling to the stone.

Later I looked at the stone, and could not find the old bearded man, he is only visible on the photo.....Actuly, it is stange how photos some times have their own life...On the frontphoto does it look like the feet are far from the stone...they are in fact under the stone...strange...I show you the photo of the left corner from the front, this is the corner that looks the worst.



Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:39 pm

My patetic news is...
My new strong camera is pulling a trick on me....I used to use my old camera to take closeup shots of every leg during the work, to see if the legs was placed right...this new camera show me a bit diffrent picture, and leads me to belive the job is done right. I did not check the whole daiza in one photo.
I have to redo the daiza I just made Neutral and the previus danish Neutral

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Sat May 19, 2012 9:37 am

This one is a longer story......

I once found this stone in a old curiosity stoneshop in London.



It was refered to a black basalt pebble with an unusual shape. And it was expensive...

I really did not know what to think of it, as I never saw a surface like this on a chinese stone before, and wondered if it was manmade..also did I think, it looked too much like a person, to be suisekimaterial.

It was a real stone, and after a looong thinking, and bargin about the price, wich came way dawn low, as the stone had been in the shop for many years, did I decide to take the stone home, as leaving it behind, not really was a option, it somehow spoke to me.

For a very long time did I not really like the stone I called "people"" a somehow angry woman?"...then Andre showed some stones from the "Namaqualand Desert" SA ...and some of stones had the same strange surface



Now I knew, were it possible came from, interesting....

Not long ago did I find a 200 year old statue of the "Dharma" on a japanese netshop, not a image I had ever seen before....It was some kind of a eyeopener for me....it looked like my stone...and the words about it was . "Dharma is the founder of the Japanese Zen Buddhism.
It is an image which the believer of Zen Buddhism likes most."



Even the face is alsmost the same...missing nose, and a mouth with turned dawn sides



Take a look at the backsides






I dont really know how to exhibit the stone...what kind of daisa....this small stand is my best offer....
It is tempting to display it on a stone, but I will refrain from this... Please feel free to give me some ideas Smile

By the way, the stone stands 13.5 cm tall...the red stuff in the holes is sand, it can be washed away, but I want to leave it for now.

Hope you enjoyed. Kind regards Yvonne



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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Михаил on Sun May 20, 2012 9:07 am

Hi dear Yvonne! Congrats to you own treasure. This black desert top perfection! If it stands on its own it does not need a podium. Look for it comprises of the best velvet. I admire the stone. My congratulations.

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Mon May 21, 2012 10:22 am

Hello my russian? friend

Very nice to read your reply. I am happy you like my stone...And yes, it stands firm on its own...I guess it has the zen Smile I think, this is what you are saying...I am just not sure I understand your reply compleetely.

A cussion of the best velvet or silk, sounds nice for this elegant stone...but I dont think it is the way of the Dharma.

I have been thinking of a small very low jitta 3 mm from hardwood, with the rim cut uneven, but still smooth, what do you think of that?

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Михаил on Mon May 21, 2012 1:53 pm

Hi dear Yvonne! I understand your concern and look at this gem. It is so good that does not need supplements. He doesn't have the blemishes that brilliance splendor. For Zen it is Wabi-Sabi. But it has many other qualities such as sacred "POO" and that's enough. He is worthy to be the best. As exhibit is your choice. He'll enjoy the viewer any views.

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Mon May 21, 2012 6:10 pm

Dear friend

Many thanks for your nice words....I know what "POO" is Smile

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Михаил on Mon May 21, 2012 9:15 pm

Podium place carved in a third the size of the stone. Many beautiful carving. Manner of any Chinese, Japanese, its artistic image. Kari Bako, glass hood, Velvet bag. This way the stone requires a rich frame:)

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Tue May 22, 2012 11:53 am

Dear Friend

I understand you want to highlight the stone, as the treassure it is.... it can be a good idea, as keeping a stone elegant and "glossy" like this stone, humble, is almost impossible.

Please explain Kari Bako

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Михаил on Tue May 22, 2012 4:31 pm

I think the Japanese traditions it is not expensive and is not understood. According to the Chinese, he will become the face of any exhibition. Many collectors like to have that. Desert stone very popular direction. I physically I felt you are looking at this stone Japanese look. On this, and I suggest that Kari Bako-Japanese wooden box. This is a good stone must have rich accessories.

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Tue May 22, 2012 4:56 pm

Hi Friend

The wooden box is a nice idea...I had come to think of this during the day..... Smile

I know this box as a " kiri box".....are we talking about the same?

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Михаил on Tue May 22, 2012 5:55 pm

Hi Yvonne! Sorry for my bad English! So if we talk about the Zen is probably close to that. http://www.bonsai-s-cube.com/SHOP/n203-w18-201.html Learn from everyone, but not imitate anyone. Maxim Gorky.

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Tue May 22, 2012 7:22 pm

Hi Maxim

Many thanks for the usefull link Smile ....inglish OK....If I do not understand, I ask again.

Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri May 25, 2012 2:42 pm

Yvonne I think your Dharma stone is exquisite!!

Wow, was it in an Antique store that you found it in? It could be real suiseki coming from Japan! But you are right it does look like the weathering of an desert stone.
Why is it that there is sand in it? was it newly collected? or is it dirt over years.
I suspect that it is Victorian collected suiseki, and was probably owned by somebody important. Its to obvious and beautifull. Im sure that this stone has a longer history than what you know.

I also think that displaying it on a jutta or flat daiza or stand, for the bottom of your Dharma stone shows great movement. It looks like somebody walking... his coat tucked in, face in the wind... full of PURPOSE and POISE. Yes yes definaletly unbelievable purpose and poise.

Have an enlightfull weekend
Love and light
Andre

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Re: My foreign stones

Post  Guest on Fri May 25, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi Andre

I am happy you like the stone...

I found it in a stoneshop, with strange stones from all ower the world, meteorites, and carwed crystalskulls and so on.
It was the old vife, who was in the shop that day, and she did not know a lot about the stone, only her husband had bought it from a lady...she belived in China, but was not sure.
The sand is the real deal, the stone is not washed. It never was anybodys suiseki, just a pretty unusual pebble.
But who nows?
I also think it will be a pity to cover the buttom of the stone...it has a very nice movement and ballance.

I have some nice wood, one of the days, will I try to carve a couple of small jitas, and see what works.
A box, like suggested by Maxim is also a very nice idea, and I want to go for this too.

Love and light to you too.
Kind regards Yvonne

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Re: My foreign stones

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