Opinion about this yamadori

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Opinion about this yamadori

Post  angelo_brioa on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:25 pm

hi

first post in IBC

i got this bush, and it is responding very very well to the collecting.

can you give me some advices to the next steps?

thanks







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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  misfit1 on Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:32 pm

Is it a Lantana sp.? What is it?

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  angelo_brioa on Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:02 pm

yes i think so

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Steve W. on Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:31 am

Not wanting to be too negative, but here in OZ Lantana is a pest species and the only thing we do with them is poison them.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  marcus watts on Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:57 am

Steve W. wrote:Not wanting to be too negative, but here in OZ Lantana is a pest species and the only thing we do with them is poison them.

does that mean you can't see a bonsai tree in this one then and are unable to help the guy ?
because they grow in pest numbers does it mean they won't make a good tree to learn on?

Hi Anjelo, I have to say first I've never worked with this species but it appears to make new buds easily on the older wood. I would use this to produce lots of branches and leaves but start off keeping all the new growth pruned to 15-20cm. This will force more branches to form and the more you have to work with the easier it is to make a nice design.

I would concentrate on making dense foliage for a year or two before worrying about the actual bonsai style, but a semi cascade is quite obvious or cut it off and make a short powerfull tree.

cheers marcus


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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:59 am

Steve W. wrote:Not wanting to be too negative, but here in OZ Lantana is a pest species and the only thing we do with them is poison them.

Rolling Eyes ..then what's wrong to make them into nice bonsai ?

Casuarina is also considered as pests species in many countries and we turn it into superb bonsai. Is that the reason why Casuarina is not used in Australia for bonsai (knowing they are also called Australian pine) ? Hope my Casuarina will not get poisoned.. Laughing

BTW, Angelo, I like the bark and the leaves look nice to be bonsai. Can you post more photos from the eye level from different angles ?

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:57 am

From talking to Australians, I think they have some very strict laws now about importation and propagation of invasive species. I know in the US, nurseries are prohibited from propagating, growing or selling invasive species, but that has not kept Bonsai people from collecting, propagating or showing them. Maybe the Australians are more careful.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Billy M. Rhodes on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:01 am

As to the shrub in question above, it needs time to grow out and show where it wants to grow. If it is Lantana it will not take long. However, I don't ever recall seeing a Lantana wired and if you want blooms you must hold off on pruning.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Mowgonie on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:35 pm

I never thought that a person that has trees for hobbies would poison another plant just because they are considered to be a pest. Doesn't seem right to me. It would be like a meateater poisoning all the vegetables because he doesnt like the taste No

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  fiona on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:06 pm

Ah c'mon. I don't for a minute think Steve meant he went round personally poisoning lantanas so perhaps we could cut the poor fella a little slack here. Very Happy And apart form anything else, the original poster is from Portugal so is unlikely to have the Aussie Plant Killing Squad jumping over his back fence and setting about his poor tree.

Anjelo, we've had a few previous threads on Lantana species on here. You can find them by clicking HERE. There might be some inspiration there.

Cheers

Fiona

ps whereabouts in Portugal are you?

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  angelo_brioa on Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:57 pm

thanks to all

the only thing we kill here in Azores (midle of atlantic ocean, vulcanic islands) are beers, nothing else Very Happy cheers

i have another recent post where you can see another lantana sp and some others projects.

here in azores there´s not any kind of bonsai "party" people.

my idea is for a cascade or semi, do you agree?

and robert steven i´l put more pics of others angles, but not today, is already night!!! Sleep







and robert steven i´l put more pics of others angles, but not today, is already night!!! Sleep (by the way, i love your work!!!!!)

thanks

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  angelo_brioa on Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:09 pm

here are the pics of other angles







hope i give me some directions.

thanks


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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  kcpoole on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:58 am

Steve W. wrote:Not wanting to be too negative, but here in OZ Lantana is a pest species and the only thing we do with them is poison them.

Not all Australians do that. There are Several varieties here that are sterile and will not reproduce from seed, which all can make stunning Bonsai
Ray Nesci has a very beautiful one in his own collection, and know of many others that are stunning trees too.
On my benches, i have three different varieties, and also 2 more in the ground developing

@Angelo, Lovely Stump you have there nice movemetnt and close branching / stubs.
Lantana will readily back bud on Very old wood, and the new growth can be carefully wired to set in place quickly, but once lignified is very brittle and cannot easily be bent without breaking.

Clip and grow is a great method to use to shape the tree

Ps. If the only thing you kill there is beer, Can I come and help you get rid of a few? Very Happy lol!

Ken

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Steve W. on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:41 pm

I would like to apologise to Angelo for my comment on his Lantana, I was in a hurry and made an off the cuff remark that I fully intended to come back and clarify. I do see some lovely shape to your tree, and your are all right in the sense that it could make a nice bonsai. Where I live on the East Coast of Australia the Lantana are an incredibly invasive species and have taken contol of nearly all of our native bushland and waterways. behind my home i would have thousands on lantana that do nothing to support the native ecosystem. Yes, I have pulled many of these out of the ground only to see 10 pop up in its place. The local council come around regularly and spray poison on the most accessible ones and local land care groups volunteer hours and hours to remove them from local bushalnd. I personally would not even consider a lantana for bonsai bias by my personal hatred for the species. This does not mean however that you should not develop this tree into what you want. Once again I do apologise if my personal opinions have offended others.

Regards

Steve W

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:46 am

Steve

I'm with you a hundred persent. We have the same problem here, and the fruit salad lantana is invader catogory nr 1, witch means that we cant sell it here in the nursery and it has got to be removed, the same with hundreds of other trees and shrubs, paracantha (witch makes excellent bonsai) also, I have got paracantha bonsai but as a Weed Officer I dont let it flower for obvious reasons. We are also forced to remove all Eucalyptus from everywhere and the Goverment are doing an amazing job. People who think that this is crazy doesnt understand the impact of invader species.
For instance Riverletts that run of the mountain became annual after planting Eucalyptus, and only flowed during winter, but since the Eucaluptus species were removed these became Perennial AGAIN. The problem with invaders is that they have no natural enemies, so they spread like wild fire, and kill all indigenous flora in their path. They also sustain no natural life!!
40% of all the flora in the the Cape are invaders!!!!
The Cape being one of the riches flora in the world and most diverse, you can imagine what a HUGE problem we are sitting with. (Table Mountain is now classified as one of the NEW seven wonders of the world), and everybody needs to do their bit for the World.

"I never thought that a person that has trees for hobbies would poison another plant just because they are considered to be a pest. Doesn't seem right to me. It would be like a meateater poisoning all the vegetables because he doesnt like the taste No"

Mowgonie I fail to see your reasoning behind this, are vegatables dangerous?
Let me give you another example. Arum lilies (Zantedescia aethipica) are an invader in Australia, Here in South African it comes out in winter after the first rain an dots the fields with ther beautifull white flowers for the whole winter, our livestock and wild animals leave the lillies alone because they know that they are exstremely poisonous, in Australia all there animals eat it, and then die... can you see the problem here, whos gonna teach the animals that they are poison? And how.
I think its time that people became less ignorant and start helping this planet!!

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  fiona on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:09 am

The apology has been made so can we get back to talking about Anjelo's tree instead of trying to prolong some sort of "fight" that was never intended in the first place.


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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Rob Kempinski on Fri Mar 02, 2012 2:45 pm

I have tried Lantana bonsai - we have a variety that grows wild (might even be native). Twelve years ago I collected a bunch. The dead wood does not last and I have found them to be rather short lived in a pot. It is hard to control the shape of the Florida variety and they will lose branches at a whim so don't fall in love with any particular branch. I don't keep these anymore as frankly I believe I have better species to spend my limited time on. That being said, keep it well fed and watered and see what happens.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Poink88 on Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:56 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:... frankly I believe I have better species to spend my limited time on.
While there are exceptions (depending on one's situation) but these are wise words to live by.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  angelo_brioa on Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:23 am

thanks to all of you, and by the argument of both side of the question(i agree with both sides, but you can allways get some nice bonsai from any kind of tree or bush, even if those are a ThumbsUp threat)

can you tell me if i let it grow for 1 year or more and then i cut it in order to develop the branches and then wire or do i cut it back this year already after the spring?

do you agree with me that the best style to show this yamadori is in a cascade right? or do you have any other opinion?


thanks

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Robert Steven on Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:53 pm

Seems that we have been arguing on the poisoning rather than giving the design solution as the original post.

Angelo, I think cascading is one of the best solution, something like this pictures...but I see "something" from the other side. Can you post another picture from the other side with the same position ? and maybe I can give you some design idea...


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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Todd Ellis on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:08 pm

The best style is cascade or possibly windswept for this tree. Have fun with it and enjoy the flowers!

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Guest on Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:20 pm

Yes I agree.
This specie can easily be trained as bonsai, fast grower. but the wood is very soft and prone to rotting so a very good drainage is a must.
here is mine under training.
This is an old photo, The tree is under going re designing because I lost the two main branches due to rotting and worm I found inside the branches.




regards,
jun

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

Post  Rob Kempinski on Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:24 pm

jun wrote:Yes I agree.
This is an old photo, The tree is under going re designing because I lost the two main branches due to rotting and worm I found inside the branches.
jun

Yep, very common problem. It seems the fast growth is its response to losing whole branches. Have to be flexible with the design evolution.

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Re: Opinion about this yamadori

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