RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

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RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Hans van Meer. on Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:55 pm

RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

This little tree has been a Bonsai in my collection for well over a decade now. This little yamadori was a gift from Tony when he visited my house after we had a wonderful time at the Ginkgo Award in Belgium (those were the days). It took me many years to shorten the very long and thick roots so it would finaly fit in to a small pot like the one it is in now. And I have learned a lot from it! It has given me flowers every year and I realy enjoyed how it looked the last few years in its wonderful John Pitt pot. But there has always been a better option hidden in there, I knew that. But it was such a major change and so many well established branches had to sacrifice to realize the image I saw! But a few days ago, after I took it out of my winter shelter, I checked the tree over and I realized that I could not longer found any excuses to not drastically change the whole design of this, to me, precious little tree.
Below: Before the work started.



Below: After a few hours. The pot is to big and it is not in the right spot in the pot! Smile But that will though just fine for now! I did not want to risk the health of this tree, by cutting of to many roots. The top needs to fill out some more, but that is only a matter of time! I cant wait to see it in boom!



So there it is, a new and rather more exciting image for an already beautiful little tree! I think it was the right choice, what you you all think?
Cheers,
Hans van Meer.


Last edited by Hans van Meer. on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo!)

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Poink88 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:35 am

I like them both...before and after. I prefer the trunk presentation of the new version a lot more.

Personally (at this stage), I don't have the courage yet to alter the original though.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Guest on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 am

Very nice redesign Hans! cheers

The tree looks much bigger and older now. with more movement.


regards,
jun Smile

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blackthorn

Post  abcd on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:33 am

sorry, it's your choice, but I prefer the tree before, blackthorn are a little crazy trees , after work, the tree is too wise for me, and the trunk is now going back , it's just my resentment.

[img][/img]

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Simo44 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:16 am

Looks a huge improvement Hans. The tree now looks more balanced to the weight of the trunk and very elegant.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Rui Marques on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:19 am

Hi Hans,

For me, i prefer the new design, the trunk is more balanced in the new front.
Sometimes a refresh to open up or minds!

Keep up the good work.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Andrei Darusenkov on Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:37 pm

Hans, I believe the three has improved a lot! And the size of the pot seems OK to me, as the apex will need to beef up a bit and with leaves the tree mass will significantly increase.

cheers,

Andrei

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  robert nocher on Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:54 pm

I love the transformation and the new front..... how tall is the tree Hans.

Robert Nocher

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Rob Kempinski on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:09 pm

Wow, I didn't see that redesign when I viewed the original photo. The new tree definitely has more character and the appearance of age.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Tony on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Did I give you this tree? What the hell was I thinking Crying or Very sad I love the new design, makes the tree a lot more powerful and reflects the quality of the bark.

ABCD you idea is out of character with the tree, your design makes the tree twisted old at the bottom and styled as a formal pine shaped tree at the top. pale

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‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Tony on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:10 pm

jun wrote:Very nice redesign Hans! cheers
The tree looks much bigger and older now. with more movement.
regards,
jun Smile

It is a paradox, we cut a big tree down to a smaller tree to make it look bigger Suspect

_________________
Tony Tickle.. "that's not your real name is it?"

‎"Study me as much as you like, you will never know me, for I differ a hundred ways from what you see me to be. Put yourself behind my eyes, and see me as I see myself, for I have chosen to dwell in a place you cannot see." — Rumi

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Poink88 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:13 pm

tony wrote:
It is a paradox, we cut a big tree down to a smaller tree to make it look bigger Suspect
LOL. So true! cheers

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Mitch Thomas on Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:17 pm

Hans
It seems your hindsight was 20/20. I love the new design! I know what you mean, whenever you looked the tree it must have been like a thorn in your side. It was a hard thing to do but you knew it had to be done. Anyway great job.

Mitch

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  SamC on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:40 pm

I find myself preferring the original styling, but I would have removed the "apex' that rises up at about the middle of the 2nd board from the top of the picture. I liked the spread of the branches which imparted a sense of age in a deciduous tree.



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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  LSBonsai on Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:15 pm

I think it is an excellent improvement! My only small comment would be that the main branch seems to be parallel to the ground line. I find this distracting. If possible, I would like to see the tree tilted in the future to change this. Of course, the root system may not allow this Smile My small suggestion, I hope you find it constructive.



Cheers

www.lakeshorebonsai.wordpress.com

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Guest on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:59 am

LSBonsai wrote:I think it is an excellent improvement! My only small comment would be that the main branch seems to be parallel to the ground line. I find this distracting. If possible, I would like to see the tree tilted in the future to change this. Of course, the root system may not allow this Smile My small suggestion, I hope you find it constructive.



Cheers

www.lakeshorebonsai.wordpress.com


Hi there.

I think using the round pot reduces the illusion of parallel line. If you'll view the tree and the pot in a slightly above ground perspective you won't see any parallel line, but the curve outline of the pot and the tree branch. try to put the tree in a rectangular or square pot and the illusion would change entirely and the parallel "rule" would be valid.
I think most people are just to used with the "rules" like the "parallel line". but there are other ways to approach this "perceived" problem, like the choice of pot for instance, to "cheat" the illusion.IMHO

regards,
jun Smile



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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  LSBonsai on Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:15 am

jun wrote:
I think using the round pot reduces the illusion of parallel line. If you'll view the tree and the pot in a slightly above ground perspective you won't see any parallel line, but the curve outline of the pot and the tree branch. try to put the tree in a rectangular or square pot and the illusion would change entirely and the parallel "rule" would be valid.
I think most people are just to used with the "rules" like the "parallel line". but there are other ways to approach this "perceived" problem, like the choice of pot for instance, to "cheat" the illusion.IMHO

regards,
jun Smile


Good point, and I completely agree. The round pot does reduce the illusion.

Nevertheless, it is still a parallel line that runs straight across the viewer's "landscape" or "horizon" or whatever you want to call it. Whether or not this is a rule of bonsai has nothing to do with why I am suggesting to avoid it. I am suggesting to avoid it because I think the design of the tree could be improved without this line. It strikes me as somewhat geometric and unnatural. Especially since the change could (in theory) be made witha relatively straightforward adjustment of planting angle.

Just my idea. I think the "round pot" trick is very useful, especially for a tree where a parallel line cannot be avoided.

Very cool tree and worthy of further disussion.

Take care Smile

www.lakeshorebonsai.wordpress.com


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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Hans van Meer. on Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:47 am

LSBonsai wrote:
jun wrote:
I think using the round pot reduces the illusion of parallel line. If you'll view the tree and the pot in a slightly above ground perspective you won't see any parallel line, but the curve outline of the pot and the tree branch. try to put the tree in a rectangular or square pot and the illusion would change entirely and the parallel "rule" would be valid.
I think most people are just to used with the "rules" like the "parallel line". but there are other ways to approach this "perceived" problem, like the choice of pot for instance, to "cheat" the illusion.IMHO

regards,
jun Smile


Good point, and I completely agree. The round pot does reduce the illusion.

Nevertheless, it is still a parallel line that runs straight across the viewer's "landscape" or "horizon" or whatever you want to call it. Whether or not this is a rule of bonsai has nothing to do with why I am suggesting to avoid it. I am suggesting to avoid it because I think the design of the tree could be improved without this line. It strikes me as somewhat geometric and unnatural. Especially since the change could (in theory) be made with a relatively straightforward adjustment of planting angle.

Just my idea. I think the "round pot" trick is very useful, especially for a tree where a parallel line cannot be avoided.

Very cool tree and worthy of further discussion.

Take care Smile

www.lakeshorebonsai.wordpress.com


Hi guy's,
thanks for your comments, I think it is great to get feedback on my work and that's why I will try to get out some more info and explanation to you all!
First of all there is not much to see from that straight line (bottom branch) in real live! And as I told in the initial post, I had to compromise the planting position and the angle because otherwise the roots on the right side would stick out trough the ground level! And I selected this slightly to big round temporary pot because the final pot will be a round one as well! But never the less, there is a straight line in this pictures so that needs to be considered the next time it is repotted!
Bellow: This next pictures were made 12-4-2009. I was recovering from my first back operation and could not do much more that to look over some smaller trees and make some future planes. And this Blackthorn was one of them! Here you can see that there is in real live not realy a straight line in that bottom branch! Here I found more or less the future planting angle and the new design that I would contemplate for a few more years until last week! The red arrow points at the reverse taper section that was verry obvius from the old front! In my new design this bulge was almost completely removed and the deadwood section that would remain was not that disturbing anymore!



Below: Just look how wonderful this natural deadwood looked after I cleaned it that day! This valuable section could not be seen from the former front! The re arrow is pointing at a large thick root that over the years got more obstructive and right in your face in the middle of the trunk, seen from the old front! This was a other reason to select this new front! And the reverse tapper that is very obvius from the old front is less obvius from the new front!



Below: A virtual from my new idea made that same day in 2009. The pot is not finished, but is just there to see how a round pot would fit the future design.



So it is fun to see that I waited a other 3 years to make sure I was sure!Smile When you dont have a lot of material you learn to be patience and to be sure before you act! Smile Now I will jump in my car and hit the road to get some new pots, wire,soil and other stuff that I run out off! And I have more pictures to share and I want to answer more of your questions later!
So Later,
Hans van Meer.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  stavros on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:29 am

A big thank you to Hans, and to the constructive discussion around this tree. I look forward to more similar subjects.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Nik Rozman on Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:38 pm

Good choice. Smile

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Robert Steven on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:51 am

Very nice tree Han, I like the movement very much...and the bark texture.

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  theBalance on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:12 am

I like the change, it makes the creation more unique !

Hans - following our last discussion, do you think that this change has made the view closer ( more "near" view ) because of the more detailed texture ?
I think it does, and actually I think that now the tree is more "balanced" because all the components are "messaging" the same "distance"

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Jan Culek on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:23 pm

Hallo,
the tree is positively much more better now, after the restyling in my opinion... i like it!

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Hans van Meer. on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:36 am

Hi Alon, I am happy to hear you like the new design. I wrote earlier a lengthily reply to your question and before I posted it I went to your Pm (that I still have to answer) to check out your name! :afraid: And offcours it was all gone when I returned to the post! To quote Mumbly: Razzer Frazzer, Razzer Frazzer! Mad And it is not the first time that I made this mistake bfffffff!

So here we go again, if I can remember what I sad earlier! Smile

theBalance wrote:I like the change, it makes the creation more unique !

Hans - following our last discussion, do you think that this change has made the view closer ( more "near" view ) because of the more detailed texture ?
I think it does, and actually I think that now the tree is more "balanced" because all the components are "messaging" the same "distance"


Well Alon you have answered your own question! Very Happy And I don’t think that the old design was that much further away or closer than the new design. And that was not realy the reason for this restyling! The old design just had to much flaws, and I say flaws instead of faults, because this is a yamadori and mother nature makes no mistakes! Very Happy It had 2 reverse tapers along its trunk, the one just above the soil level was becoming more obvious as the years went by. The second one was there because all of the branches originated from one point and that also became more worse over the years! Than there was the problem of the two left and right first branches, they (especially the left one) grew towards the front in a way that could not be changed much more! Than there was a ugly thickening in the top of the tree, that only could be solved by removing it and grow a other one. And out of experience, I knew that this would take at least 3 to 4 years, because they hardly grow much more when they have to live in such a restricted space! A lot of these eyesores would be solved or disappear by simply turning the tree around. If you take all this in account and also realize that by simply turning the tree around I would have that lovely old deadwood section and exciting trunk movement to incorporate in (in my vision) a new and better design. A design of a tree, like the Blackthorns or Hawthorns that can be found on the wind battered hillsides along the coastline of Wales. Only time will tell if I made the right choice, I will keep you all posted on it’s progress! Thanks for all your replys! Very Happy
More pictures of this restyling:HERE!
Cheers,
Hans van Meer

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:57 am

Hans van Meer. wrote:






.


This is a very moving image Hans. It got so much character now than before.

I just wish the pot is a bit wider and the tree is placed off center to the right of it.

regards,
jun Smile

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Re: RESTYLING MY OLD BLACKTHORN BONSAI (COMPLETELY)!

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