developing bougainvillea ramification

posting two bougainvillea that've been defoliated, dewired and cut back to stimulate ramification. both were dug from the same property on the same day, about 8 years ago. the orange was originally more than 6 feet tall, the pink about 5 feet, growing on a slant. the goal is to develop ramification, so its a repetitive cycle of defoliation and pruning to stimulate twigging. both have a ways to go. progress is slow. the orange is nearer the mark.

orange - before
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pink

i like this trees, nice trunks... regards

thank you

best wishes, sam

Hey Sam, any more updates on these beauties?

Have a great weekend!!!
Sam

sorry sam:

been busy with projects. been kinda neglecting trees. will post soon

best wishes, sam

They are developing well Sam.

regards,
jun

jun wrote:They are developing well Sam.

regards,
jun

Well, they are, but I have a question. I've been looking at this trying to figure out how to ask this and not sound pissy, because that's not my intent. So here goes...

These were dug 8 or 9 years ago, right? If these were mine (I wish!) I would have spent some of those years letting the new branches grow so they'd be in porportion with those fat trunks. Grow out, cut back, wire, repeat. Ramification is like icing on the cake - the LAST thing to do after an appropriate branch structure is in place. So now that you're working on ramification there's no wild, unchecked growth for fattening up, right? Will the branches, especially the lowest ones, EVER be in porportion with the trunk?

To me it seems like a step got skipped, or am I missing something?

Hi Russell (and Sam as well),

if these were my tree,, I think the major branches are in placed. the next step would be to let it grow wild again, and control the growth of the upper branches and let the lower branches gain more thickness. Then cut back again. Cutting more frequently the top branch than the lower branch is one way of getting thicker lower branch than the upper branches.

regards,
jun

jun wrote:I think the major branches are in placed.

Well, me too, but it seems like we went from step 1 to step 3 and skipped step 2.

Russell Coker wrote:

jun wrote:I think the major branches are in placed.

Well, me too, but it seems like we went from step 1 to step 3 and skipped step 2.

Maybe maybe not. I think only Sam can answer that... maybe he has his own procedure, as Bougainvillea seems to be his forte now. I'll be interested too to hear his point of view and learn from him as well.

regards,
jun

Russell Coker wrote:

jun wrote:I think the major branches are in placed.

Well, me too, but it seems like we went from step 1 to step 3 and skipped step 2.

Not really. I believe step 2 and 3 can be done simultaneously. A newbies point of view (that could be wrong) is that having a "sacrificial branch" to improve taper is not only applicable in main trunks.

Poink88 wrote:

Russell Coker wrote:

jun wrote:I think the major branches are in placed.

Well, me too, but it seems like we went from step 1 to step 3 and skipped step 2.

Not really. I believe step 2 and 3 can be done simultaneously. A newbies point of view (that could be wrong) is that having a "sacrificial branch" to improve taper is not only applicable in main trunks.

This is a great question. One I've often wondered. Can you start ramification and leave a branch at the end to run wild, or is this counterproductive?

Sam Ogranaja wrote:

Poink88 wrote:

Russell Coker wrote:

jun wrote:I think the major branches are in placed.

Well, me too, but it seems like we went from step 1 to step 3 and skipped step 2.

Not really. I believe step 2 and 3 can be done simultaneously. A newbies point of view (that could be wrong) is that having a "sacrificial branch" to improve taper is not only applicable in main trunks.

This is a great question. One I've often wondered. Can you start ramification and leave a branch at the end to run wild, or is this counterproductive?

My plan is to have one run wild...but NOT the one on the end. Place it just like how you would use a sacrificial branch on a trunk.

This is how I am approaching most of my collected/yamadori trees actually. Nothing much yet because I am new (and it is winter) but this is my game plan.

Dario(et al.)
Not only does a sacrificial branch work to thicken when also ramifying branches, but with species or varieties that can develop longer internodes, it can actually HELP the ramification process, by drawing the energy of the branch to the extension growth. A buddy of mine recently pointed out that the "Twofer" method is easiest, saying a lot guys are good at building branch girth, and a lot at building density, very few at both, and even less at the same time.

Sam Ogranaja wrote:
This is a great question. One I've often wondered. Can you start ramification and leave a branch at the end to run wild, or is this counterproductive?

Sam
As Ryan points out, this is a classic technique and is exceedingly useful on species that tend towards long internodes where back budding is predominantly at the nodes themselves. A sap drawer can be used to thicken a branch and is allowed to grow wild, usually the apical bud is chosen for this treatment and is allowed free growth. At the same time internodes are developed (pinching, pruning etc..) from buds that are breaking further down on that same branch located closer in to the trunk. These will eventually form the finished branch structure once the desired thickness is gained through the unchecked extension of the "sap drawer" And the sap drawer is then trimmed off. With some trees if we cant control the growth energy we can at least re-direct it and possibly gain as well.

This is a technique that is very useful in working with Maples, Euonymous, and indispensable in working with American Beech.
-Jay
Numbers one and three branch as well as the leader on my big Beech are all being done with "sap drawers"