Seed stratification

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Seed stratification

Post  jake4bonsai on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:47 am

Does anyone here know about stratifying seeds and using saltpeter, does pottasium nitrate have to be used or can just warm water be used? Are the results better or the numbers of germinating seeds higher using saltpeter? Anyone with advice is welcome to help and is appriciated. Thanks!

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:58 am

I start everything from seed...

Ok what are you trying to germinate it all depends on what type of tree your trying to grow.

and the best results i found are from not trying so hard...

Let me know what kind of seed your trying to germinate. the old fashioned non high teck ways usually work best.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  SamC on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:01 am

I think the species in question is a very important consideration. (And I am assuming you are referring to cold stratification).

I have been getting very good results using just damp white sand.

For small hard seeds I typically remove any pulp and just mix the seed with damp white sand and put the mix into prescription bottle with a label noting the species and date as well as any other information such as the date of the end of the recommended cold stratification period.

The white sand is handy as the bottle contents can be poured into a dish of water and the seeds are usually very easy to see and separate.

Some seeds I do nick or scarify, and I have found recommendations for some species to have the ends of the seed covering even being snipped (some Eleagnus).

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Seed stratisfication

Post  jake4bonsai on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:11 am

Right now trident and japanese red maples. Acer Buergeranum, and Acer Palmatum Atropurpurea. I bought them from an online seed company that stratisfies them for you and says when you recieve them to soak them for 24 hours in a warm water and saltpeter solution before sowing. They also are supposed to be a good and honest place, they guarentee the seeds and any that dont germinate they will replace free of charge! Thats the only reason i bought them. I also bought ficus benjamina, narrow leaf ficus, and oak leaf creeping ficus seeds but they claim those are easy to grow. The tropical seeds i just put in a window sill greenhouse tray in steril potting media with a very thin layer of vermiculite over them and dampened them with superthrive water and put the clear top over them and put them in a bright window with artificial light over them incase of cloudy days and put a heating pad under it to keep the seeds at 70%. But i had never heard of this saltpeter before and wondered if you have to use it or if warm water suffices or if the potassium nitrate increases numbers of germinated seeds or causes faster germination? If so id probably want to use it but nurseries here dont have it because of the laws on it due to its exsplosive nature. I dont know where id get it and i just dont know if id want to make it. Thanks for your response!

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:19 am

I have never heard of it out side of chemistry.

To get them to sprout faster ... hot water... and green house environments.

basically you just want to mimic growing conditions of ware there native from... and i am pretty sure the saltpeter is something that doesn't happen in nature.

I agree with the soaking but not with the saltpeter... never used it.

and i have gotten kiwi to sprout...

Hot water.. promotes germination... not too hot... but hot out of the tap hot, not steaming does the trick for anything. Its how i got my Avocado to sprout and grow and how i got my others to sprout as well.

so it sounds like you have done a very good job right on your own.

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Seed stratisfication

Post  jake4bonsai on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:36 am

I read that it has something to do witht the break down of the germination inhibitors and provides high nitrogen wich i guess seeds need to germinate. I dont know for sure, thats just what i read. I emailed the place where i bought them but they havent got with me yet on the use of this chemical. I know seeds can be difficult to germinate so anything that speeds up germination or provides a higher result is always welcome as long as it works. I would like to grow japanese black pines and shimpaku juniper but i hear there probably among the hardest to germinate artifically. Seeds can always be put outside in the spring or fall and let naturally stratisfy but it can take from one to three years and speratic germination i hear! Thats a big chance and a long time to wait for seeds to grow. If i dont have much luck i may have to just start buying seedlings and go from there. Itll be a little more exspensive though. When i first started this bonsai thing i had no idea how long it can take to grow seeds! I was shocked.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:44 am

ya it takes for ever for some of them.

my tangerine tree... was one of those that germinate in four weeks... got them to sprout one week two days

Avocados take up to 2 or 3 months... got that one to go in 1 month and two days.

Hot water works wonders it shocks the seed into growing. hot water is also very good in getting your tree to produce roots fast.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  JimLewis on Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:57 am

Every species has its own requirements. There is no one-size-fits-all route with growing from seed. Anyone who intends to attempt the labor-intensive and time-consuming work of growing his or her bonsai from seed needs Michael Dirr's The Reference Manual of Woody Plant Propagation: From Seed to Tissue Culture or at the very least his Manual of Woody Landscape Plants which includes a propagation note with each plant discussed that covers the best means to propagation for that plant -- though sometimes seeds are not included.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:48 pm

Keep it simple stupid... is a old saying my grandpa use to say...

Since when did they wright books on how to grow seeds things... been doing since two... and let me tell you there isn't single tree i can't get to sprout.

If your wondering thats 20 years experience in the seed department.

just read up on the tree and mimic climate and germination will happen.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  JimLewis on Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:31 pm

Since when did they wright books on how to grow seeds things

and let me tell you there isn't single tree i can't get to sprout.

Goody, goody for you then. And your modesty becomes you -- even if your spelling doesn't.

But people write books on the subject because many other people seem to have a bit of trouble germinating seeds consistently.

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Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 5:00 pm

that might be so but i have read most of those books.

they either have out dated data.. or ramble on and on and on.. about processes you could live with out quite nicely.

My point was simply... Seed germination is easy to do for anyone as long as they know a lot about the plant they are trying to get out of the seed... books are fine and dandy.. but they don't and can't understand everything. and a book is only as good as the author.

Most books get made by people who do not do what they wright about. And so finding a really good book on something that is simple is like trying to find the needle in the hay stack.

A book about a tree written by science is worth its wait in gold, to understand the seed you must first understand the adult.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  drgonzo on Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:57 pm

wolfHhowling-

Do you have any Ginko Bilobas, or Dawn Redwoods?
-Jay

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  Guest on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:12 pm

I have neither, I like the dawn red wood.. the seed from such a tree can be hard to acquire. And so is at the bottom of my list. But yes owning the living fossil will be my pride and joy later on in my endeavors.

as for the other one the Ginko Bilobas is not my cup of tea. I do not care for the tree. Its also called the maiden hair tree and is considered a relic and i am sure make wondrous specimens of the bonsai art... just do not like the tree.

as of right now i only have three species of tree. Due to moving and giving away trees.

But i have a really long list of trees i will be starting from seed this year. that includes the desert rose, star fruit, cashew nut, Chinese pistachio, and a bunch of pine, ever greens and tropical plants.

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  marcus watts on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:14 pm

drgonzo wrote:wolfHhowling-

Do you have any Ginko Bilobas, or Dawn Redwoods?
-Jay

YES YES YES - I been thinking the same thing - I was itching to say "can we see your trees with the garage door behind them..........."
I think we may have a wolf meditating cub, or even the daddy wolf ! if it is I think there should be a video about seed growing coming soon.


best regards Obi wan Marcus -

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Re: Seed stratification

Post  marcus watts on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Steady Jim, Relax...............

The wolf is fishing and has a bite I think.........

wen is the nexxt ful mooon, i feil the neid to meddittate? -

cheers Marcus

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Re: Seed stratification

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