Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

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Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:29 pm

Just a few photos I took quite a while ago when I visited Erik in Florida.
It was a nice trip and I will definetly visit him and his wife again in the future.
I didn't find any pics in the forum so I hope you enjoy them.

Best wishes.
Max

























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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  ogie on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:50 pm

Great garden and Thanks for sharing with us i can't blame you if you visit him again. nice nursery
Regards,
Alec Very Happy

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Gentleman G. on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:15 pm

WOW Shocked I'd been thinking about planning a trip to some more bonsai nurseries soon.... think I just found out where I'm going next!

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:34 pm

Gentleman G. wrote:WOW Shocked I'd been thinking about planning a trip to some more bonsai nurseries soon.... think I just found out where I'm going next!

So then give Erik my best regards. Wink

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Gentleman G. on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:55 pm

I don't know how soon I'll be able to make the trip, but I'll be sure to tell him when I do visit. Thank you for posting these wonderful pictures!

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:57 am

Max,

Thanks for posting my pictures. I used to live in Ft. Myers and every time I go back to visit my family, I always stop by Erik's.

Since I respect your opinion based on the trees I've seen you post here, I'm just curious, what did you think of the big raintree? I haven't seen any European trees styled like that.

Have a great week!!!!
Sam

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:26 am

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Max,

Thanks for posting my pictures. I used to live in Ft. Myers and every time I go back to visit my family, I always stop by Erik's.

Since I respect your opinion based on the trees I've seen you post here, I'm just curious, what did you think of the big raintree? I haven't seen any European trees styled like that.

Have a great week!!!!
Sam


Hi Sam,
what exactly do you mean by "posting my pictures"?!? Expect those where you can see me I took them all by my self.
Or was it a joke?

The big raintree (pic attached) reminded me very much of chinese penjing. It looks very much like a "flat top" styled tree. You are right in europe there are not that many trees styled like this. But it's just a matter of taste.
As far as I know this style is caused by a raintree's natural habitat. As I am honest I prefer different styles for my own, where the crown is a little less high and has more volume.

Have a great week, too! Wink

Max


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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:37 am

Hello guys

Max the Flat top style tree is one of 4 South African reconized Bonsai Styles, the Flat top is actually called the Pierneef style ( He was a South African Artist that painted trees in this manner.) It is based on the Acacia Tortillis, that you find all over Africa, they have exceptional flat crowns. The other SA Styles include the Baobab, the Wild syringa and the Wild Olive Style.

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:01 am

Hey Andre,
sorry for having to contradict your post. But this is simply not true. When anybody in South Africa started doing Bonsai the "flat top" style already was established in China. Last time when I travelled through China I saw trees that were styled this way for many decades. For sure many trees (or even most) that naturaly look similiar to this style may live in Africa.

bw
Max


Last edited by Max Engels on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:02 am

This could be interesting for you as well:
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t8028-flat-top-style

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:11 am

I just see I wrote a little mistakable!
This "As far as I know this style is caused by a raintree's natural habitat." should have meant the exact tree on the picture.

bw
Max

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:26 am

Dear Max,
I'm not pulling things out of my head, I'm sharing with you what I've learned in Books (long before the Internet) and from the Bonsai club.
Look up Acacia tortillis, and you will see what I mean. If you think of a tree in the savanna of African, what do you see? African Bonsai Styles
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This section of the website is based on a book called 'Bonsai Styles of the World', written by Charles Ceronio.

It contains a comprehensive description of 42 Bonsai styles found throughout the world, it includes Japanese, Chinese as well as African Styles.

If you are interested in getting a copy of the book you can send an e-mail to charlesceronio@telkomsa.net or phone Charles Ceronio at 084 628 1782

This page is dedicated to a couple of African styles, some of which were first developed by Charles Ceronio.
Flat Top Style
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flat-topThe flat top style has its origin in two Acacia species found only in Africa, namely Acacia sieberana and Acacia abyssinica. These magnificent trees are found in the warmer parts of Africa and have a particular branch formation that inspired Charles to create a new African style.

The A. sieberana is a huge deciduous tree with widespread branches which form a flattened circle similar to the spokes of a wheel when viewed from above.

The A. abyssinica, found in Ethiopia has a more slender trunk and appears more delicate than that of the sieberana. The interesting trademark of these two trees is that the top growth is short, hence the unique flat top.
Wild Fig Style
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figThe wild fig style can be regarded as one of the variations of the broom style.

The dominant feature of the style is a full umbrella silhouette with an extremely wide branch span. The widespread growth of these trees is characteristic of most of the Ficus species growing in the tropical parts of the world.
Wonderboom Style
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wonderboomThe elbow or Wonderboom style originated with and extraordinarily large and famous wild fig growing on the northern foothills of the Magaliesberg mountains, a range that extends into the suburbs of the city of Pretoria.

It is commonly known as the Wonderboom, meaning tree of wonder, or rather, unique tree.

Over the centuries, the long spreading branches started to grow downwards and came to rest on the ground like an old man resting his elbows. The huge branches then took root and sent up new trees. Several of these branches in turn gave rise to a third circle of trees.

Today the Wonderboom has a height of approximately twenty-five meters and a spread of about fifty-five meters. One thousand one hundred people can sit in the shade of this unique tree.
Bushveld Style
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bushveldThe bushveld (Afrikaans for land covered by trees) is a broad area found in the warmer subtropical parts of Southern Africa. The trees growing in this area have specific natural growth characteristics and, as in most African tree species, the branch structure is very informal and zigzagged. The dry conditions hamper the development of these trees, resulting in their unique forms.

The main objective of the style is to achieve a natural appearance and radiate an air of strength and endurance.
Pierneef Style
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pierneefThe Pierneef or open-umbrella shape is exclusive to Africa. The African continent has the largest variety of flora in the world, but the Acacia dominates the African scene. These superb trees with their semi-circle crowns, like open umbrellas, inspired Charles to develop a new African style.

The umbrella-shaped form was spontaneously named after the well-known South African artist, Jacob Hendrik Pierneef, who depicted many of these tree forms in his paintings.
Baobab Style
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baobab_bonsai_tree

The Baobab is a native tree which grows in the drier tropical parts of Africa. This enormous, sometimes strangely shaped tree fascinates all who see it.

Botanists depict the baobab as a monarch, a monster of a prehistoric world, a vegetable elephant or a carrot growing upside-down. Some African tribes call it the tree that has been planted upside down by the gods.

This tree is not known for its height, which ranges between fourteen and twenty meters, but for its enormous girth. Livingstone apparently once camped under a baobab with a circumference of twenty-six meters.
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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:32 am

So sorry none of the pictures came out, how do you post pictures?

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:34 am

http://www.pretoriabonsaikai.org/index.php/trees-a-styles/african-styles.html

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:36 am

Andre I think you did not read my post!
Of course african trees look like this. But still this style was invented in China long time ago!

To add a pic just click the imageupload button and put the resulting image address into these image brakets:

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:44 am

I just viewed your link. Actually I can only see one style that I didn't see on very old asian bonsai or penjing so far: Wonderboom Style
The rest of it is very common. All these styles have been practised long time before Bonsai came up anywhere in Africa.
I know trees that are exactly shaped the way described on this website but have got nothing to do with Africa and so will definetely many users in this forum do. Just because there are "real" trees looking like this it does for sure not mean the first Bonsai in this style just arose in Africa.
This is simply not true.


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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 am



Dear Max

I can feel a argument brewing, I will leave you with this thought, what is the name for the flatcrown Style?
Pierneef, Right?
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t7670-pierneef-flat-top-rain-tree-discouragement

Ofcourse the style has been done all over the world for centuries, but always under the umbrella of the Broom style, Untill recently when it was reconized as a style on its own, the tipical savanna flatcrown, hence the way Pierneef painted his trees in 1910.

thank you for the advise, will see if it works.. drunken

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:54 am

Sorry Max still struggeling with uplading images, Can anybody help? I know America is asleep!!

Search for Pierneef images, and you see fantastic bonsai inspiration!
love and light Very Happy

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:20 am

Andre,

to me it sounds like you feel hurt in your proudness to be african
when I say Africa did not invent this Bonsai style.
By the way I also say Africa didn't invent:

Bushveld Style: because it is Moyogi
Wild fig style: because it is Hokidachi

Thats why I am no longer interested in this debate.
Think what ever you want to think.
Maybe Africa did also invent Bonsai.

Actually it's without any meaning to Bonsai how you call it.
So I don't care.

bw
Max

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Andre Beaurain on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:38 am

Africa is vast..
I said South Africa. The Cradle of human kind.... sunny

You obviously didnt look at Pierneefs paintings? You would have been in a much better mood!!

Max I'm joking!!
Have a fantastic day, I must actually go and work in the Nursery for while...



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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:47 am

To you the same, Andre! Very Happy
Maybe one day we meet in South Africa and you show me your trees?
(I actually got some relatives quite close in Namibia! No joke!)

Best wishes!
Max

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Sam Ogranaja on Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:59 pm

Hey Max. That was a typo, I meant "your" pictures. I stayed up working until 2 the night before (highly unusual for me) and couldn't think straight all day yesterday. I'm still a little delirious. Thank you for your explanation of that tree and style. You must have gone there a while ago, I'm guessing 2 - 3 years ago. The tree is no longer planted on that slab.

I think you guys are both wrong. James Cameron invented this style in Avatar.
PS - I AM COMPLETELY JOKING ABOUT THIS.

My personal opinion is that I don't care where that style originated. When I first saw the tree, it was the first of that style I had ever seen and it struck me. So much so, that I bought a raintree and had Erik work it in that style for me and I now have brought it home to finish it. If there is ever such a thing.

I've learned that bonsai styles or forms are sort of like the chicken or the egg story. Which came first? I don't know but they're delicious. In my mind, when I see a flat top broadleaf tree, I think of Africa or North Carolina, USA. Believe it or not, we have a ton of mimosas that grow a natural flat top but without the "flavor" of Africa's beaten acacias. Either way, beautiful forms and to me, very striking when done right. And the goal is touch someones soul when they look at your trees.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!
Sam

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:38 pm

Sam Ogranaja wrote:Hey Max. That was a typo, I meant "your" pictures. I stayed up working until 2 the night before (highly unusual for me) and couldn't think straight all day yesterday. I'm still a little delirious. Thank you for your explanation of that tree and style. You must have gone there a while ago, I'm guessing 2 - 3 years ago. The tree is no longer planted on that slab.

I think you guys are both wrong. James Cameron invented this style in Avatar.
PS - I AM COMPLETELY JOKING ABOUT THIS.

My personal opinion is that I don't care where that style originated. When I first saw the tree, it was the first of that style I had ever seen and it struck me. So much so, that I bought a raintree and had Erik work it in that style for me and I now have brought it home to finish it. If there is ever such a thing.

I've learned that bonsai styles or forms are sort of like the chicken or the egg story. Which came first? I don't know but they're delicious. In my mind, when I see a flat top broadleaf tree, I think of Africa or North Carolina, USA. Believe it or not, we have a ton of mimosas that grow a natural flat top but without the "flavor" of Africa's beaten acacias. Either way, beautiful forms and to me, very striking when done right. And the goal is touch someones soul when they look at your trees.

Have a great weekend everyone!!!
Sam

Hey Sam! Very Happy

It must have been November 2010 I just controlled it.
So also a while ago as I always have to find sometime to look back.

I totaly agree! It's been James Cameron! Laughing

No, seriously I am sorry for interrupting anybodys opinion about that!
I think you are right! It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is if you like it or not.

Wink

Best wishes
Max

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  drgonzo on Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:46 pm

Max Engels wrote:. Just because there are "real" trees looking like this it does for sure not mean the first Bonsai in this style just arose in Africa.
This is simply not true.

I just read through this thread and had difficulty finding exactly where Andre made the statement that the first Flat top bonsai were created in Africa? Did I miss it?

He mentions an African painter who painted local landscape trees in this style and thus had his name adopted as its moniker. Its interesting to find out that thats where the name came from! Though there seems to be debate as to whether there is a difference between "umbrella style," which more closely resembles what Pierneef was painting, and "Flat top style"

Now in reference to Erik Wigert's Large pierneef Rain Tree, From what I've seen Chloroleucon tortum does not seem to adopt "flat top" as its growth habit naturally. Perhaps it would with Grazing animal assistance though. Num Num Very Happy
-Jay

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

Post  Max on Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:04 pm

Hi Jay,
here is Andre's post:

Post Andre Beaurain Today at 6:37 am
"Hello guys
Max the Flat top style tree is one of 4 South African reconized Bonsai Styles, the Flat top is actually called the Pierneef style ( He was a South African Artist that painted trees in this manner.) It is based on the Acacia Tortillis, that you find all over Africa, they have exceptional flat crowns. The other SA Styles include the Baobab, the Wild syringa and the Wild Olive Style."

This to my mind indicates that the chinese style is not a chinese style but south african. Andre didn't correct this understanding so far.
As well it indicates that what I call Moyogi is south african Bushveld Style and what I call Hokidachi is Wild fig style.
(By the way on the link Andre quotes there is a difference between "Flat top style" and "Pierneef style"...)

But as I said I will no longer debate about this cause there seems to be no need for Bonsai itself.

Best wishes
Max

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Re: Visit to Erik Wigert's Bonsai garden, FL

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