Taxodium chokkan

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Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:25 pm

Hello dear friends, posted a summary and update of this plant in my blog:


The post is this: http://fabiano.projetobonsai.com/2009/06/27/taxodium-distichum-chokkan/

Big hug,
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Garykk on Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:01 pm

Here is a model Taxodium for you Fabiano. The Senator is 118 ft tall, 3500 years old, 18 ft diameter. Said to be the largest Td tree in Florida.



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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  fiona on Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:00 pm

Hi. Im trying to get an idea of scale but struggling with translation of the blog details: I think it says that the height 85cm total and 50 from top of the pot. Also the diameter of the trunk is 16cm at the base and 6cm at the apex. Is that even close to what you wrote?

I like the tree and did something similar with a Dawn Redwood some years ago - now sold on and still living. Are you planning on extending the shari the entire way down the front?

Good luck.

Fiona

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:19 pm

Gary, thank you for the photo! Wink

Hello Fiona, the wrong is the only measure of 50cm which is the width of the crown, or width of the pot.

I think the Shari base but may come up before, but my next step with this plan is to give attention to nebari, so how she can increase this Shari course, as has already happened, I hope to see later.

Thank you for your comment.

Best regards all,
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  DaveP on Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:48 pm

I think you've got a good start here. The only two recommendations I'd make at this point is to resolve the conflict in the apex .. either the deadwood or the live branch should be the apex, but not both. The other is to add more downward angle to the branches to make them appear older and nature-burdened. Optional would be the removal of at least the two lower braches, and perhaps other low branches as well. If you look at the photo Gary provided, most Taxodiums (and their cousin, Metasequoia) don't retain low branches as they age.

Kindest,
-d

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  JimLewis on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:57 pm

You have a very nice trunk to work from.

However, few bald cypress grow in the shape you are contemplating. Lost in our old IBC site was a thread featuring dozens of old bald cypress from (mostly) Florida and Louisiana. I don't recall any of those shaped as a tall pyramid. Most of them tended toward some variety of a flat top, with or without lower branches. Many of them looked very much like old oaks -- except they were growing in water.

But a typical shape is the one popularized by Vaughn Banting -- the flat top. Here's mine. It's badly in need of a haircut, and probably could afford to lose some more of those upper branches, as it's a bit topheavy. but it contains some of the things you seem to want -- the prominent shari, for example. This one is MUCH smaller than yours.

One comment on the branches, whether or not you end up keeping them: They're arrow straight, most of them. You need more side and up and down bends in them. These look as if the tree is scared stiff.


_________________
Jim Lewis - lewisjk@windstream.net - Western NC - People, when Columbus discovered this country, it was plumb full of nuts and berries. And I'm right here to tell you the berries are just about all gone. Uncle Dave Macon, old-time country musician

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  DaveP on Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:45 pm

I guess a better first question would be what type of tree are you trying to emulate or create an image of? A swamp-growing Bald Cypress? An ancient Coastal Redwood? An even-more-ancient Dawn Redwood?

Each has slightly different characteristics, as Jim points out. One commonality they share is a lack of lower branching.

Kindest~
-d

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  AlainK on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:10 pm

JimLewis wrote:
(...)
I don't recall any of those shaped as a tall pyramid. Most of them tended toward some variety of a flat top, with or without lower branches. Many of them looked very much like old oaks -- except they were growing in water.

But a typical shape is the one popularized by Vaughn Banting -- the flat top. Here's mine. It's badly in need of a haircut, and probably could afford to lose some more of those upper branches, as it's a bit topheavy.
(...)

Maybe Taxodium distichum are "real bonsai trees": like olive-trees, one that catches your attention will never look like a "real" tree at all.

Masterpieces olive-trees that look like junipers, with lots of jins ans sharis and dead wood, and "Wow!!!!" (ever been to Catalunya, ever seen what a 500 yr-old olive looks really like?...)

Go ahead with your styling, even very few Bald Cypresses look like that, it isthe best way to make the most of this tree. It will look like a nice bonsai, what the heck if thunder strikes one in 10,000 trees where you are, it will be the one.

Listen to beauty...

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  AlainK on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:34 pm

DaveP wrote:
One commonality they share is a lack of lower branching.

Right: that's why I find Vaughn Banting's tree quite boring to look at. In spite of the technique, which must be excellent, the impression it gives is quite disappointing.

It must be a cultuiral divide again: here in the old world, we have some awsome (to my taste) Bald cypresses: the climate being very different, much cooler in the winter, not so hot in the summer, even very old specimens are pyramid-shaped, with "pneumatophores" (airial roots) at the base.

There is a pond by a "chateau", I haven't been able to take the right photo yet, but in november, when the frost lies a white icing on the brick-coloured leaves, my, what a sight...

Bald Cypress are at home now in Europe, they are "Cyprès Chauves" in France, they are doing well, they are beautiful and don't look like battered trees fighting for a way tro survive, they just are splendid trees, and pyramid-shaped thanks to the climate.

My 2-euro-cents...

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Garykk on Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:49 pm

A few bc's to think about. __gary







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"As You Like It" W. Shakespeare

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:30 am

There is no requirement to make any bonsai look like a full size tree of the same species you'd find in nature.
If you want to do that, fine but it's not a requirement for bonsai. John Naka said "make you bonsai look like a tree" but he didn't say "make it look like a mature tree of the same species in the ground."
If you want to make a tree that conjures up old age and antiquity then fine too.
If you want to make a tree that conjures up the image of strip mall, then fine too. Neutral
As art, any tree can be made to have any form. Some forms will very hard to execute, like a exposed driftwood ficus (unless you are making a Phoenix graft) others will resemble mature trees or young trees.

The style that Fabian has started is what we in the US we call "immature juvenile" Bald Cypress Style with exposed driftwood. It makes nice looking bonsai, however it doesn't conjure up a true image of antiquity. The Bald Cypress in France are probably all in this immature juvenile stage. The older a cypress gets the wilder it gets but again scaling down the wildness into a bonsai pot is a tough chore. Remember bonsai is about "selective compression." (A concept I cover in my book Wink )

I styled a bonsai similar to Fabian's several years ago. I called it "White Lightning" but alas it died while on display the WDW EPCOT Flower and Garden show several years ago.



Vaugnh Banting's Flat Top Bald Cypress conjured up the image of a fully mature tree fighting for survival in a Bald Cypress Dome. The top goes haywire looking for light in the competitive forest.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  AlainK on Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:47 am

Very nice examples of different styles Rob.

The flat-top one looks so natural, it's really great work, makes me feel transported to another part of the world. this one deserves respect because it looks authentic.

Yes, that's a beautiful tree.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Hello Dave, I imagine the apex more full of foliage, I think that can be removed later this small apical jin, if it is really uncomfortable.

On the angle of the lower branches I put it down a little from the original work, but I think it might be lower, yes, thanks for the comment.

Best regards,
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:40 pm

Hello Jim, my intention is to chokkan imitating a conifer pine as a solitary, completely formal, as I can.
Maybe so the lower branches leaving the taxodium itself in nature.

I know the work of Vaughn Banting, has been of great inspiration to construct the dead wood, but do not believe in the same style proposed by him in his work.
On the branches which should be cut with the intention of greater harmony in the crown, following this order, or friend would like some more I suggest those who really should get out in time or another.

I gave a little movement to the primary branches but very little and tried to do this with more pruning to tertiary, as well a better taper in subsidiaries, but I can not see a chokkam really formal and straight, its subsidiaries secondary with more movement, I would like to know your opinion on the matter.

Thank you very much your opinion and help, like it could continue counting on it.
I will show you in photos what comes close to my project, with some examples found on the Internet:




And here some photos in nature from taxodium inthis style:

Best regards,
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:48 pm

Alain, Rob and Gary, i really apreciate yours participation on this discussion, it´s fantastic!

Best regards,
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Rob Kempinski on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:12 pm

Fabianoscosta wrote:Alain, Rob and Gary, i really apreciate yours participation on this discussion, it´s fantastic!

Best regards,
Fabiano.

Fabiano, you're welcome. The full size trees you show in your recent post are relatively young. Old cypress trees lose that cone shape. But all styles are possible. I even had a cascade Bald Cypress for a while until my neighbor chopped down an full size oak tree and had it fall on top of it.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:36 pm

Rob i understand, thank you and sorry for your waterfall, should take the neighbor's oak tree to replace it, if not size the way, a little more ... Rolling Eyes Smile
Regards,
Fabiano

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Alan Walker on Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:28 pm

Here's another example of bald cypress: Guy Guidry and his "Twister" as seen at the recent BCI convention in New Orleans.
[img][/img]

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  DaveP on Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:42 pm

After seeing 4 grown men struggling to move that beast last fall, it's simply an awesome sight to behold!

Kindest~
-d

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:51 pm

This taxodium is really the most impressive I've seen, but in my picture, Gui is with silvery hair less.


Hug´s,
Fabiano

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Rob Kempinski on Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:51 pm

Twister is indeed impressive.

Another impressive one is the Sentinel, now in the collection of Ronn Miller, Florida.





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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Alan Walker on Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:43 pm

Rob Kempinski wrote:Twister is indeed impressive.
Another impressive one is the Sentinel, now in the collection of Ronn Miller, Florida.
Even more impressive is the setting for "The Sentinel". Cool

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:47 pm

And I see that "The Sentinel" is a place where she likes a lot, considering the high humidity and environment in which it is included.

Regards,
Fabiano.

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Chokkan is difficult with Taxodium

Post  Chaddad on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:39 pm

A young tree of Bald cypress maybe more appropriated in Chokkan Style.

But the nebary is irregular root distribuition.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

Post  Fabianoscosta on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:46 pm

Hello Chaddad how are you?
Really in young trees, if you have not given much luck in finding good material already a nebari Interestingly, the big deal is trying to make one, this is my project with the structure of this plant.



She was so in October this year.

Hug´s (abração)
Fabiano.

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Re: Taxodium chokkan

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